3.4L project | Page 3 | FerrariChat

3.4L project

Discussion in '308/328' started by Ferraripilot, Jun 21, 2011.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    The valve guides are still like new as are many seals and roller bearings etc. Plus all the previous machine work is still top notch like the rods and main caps etc.
     
  2. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,523
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Measure your stud spacing for that torque plate!
     
  3. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    center of stud to center is 95mm (3.74") measuring length-wise on the block. 80mm measuring north/south.
     
  4. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    Was just researching a bit on this stuff. It's basically an anaerobic sealant and is INSANELY pricey at about $100 a tube, but its capabilities are excellent. Nus pricing IMO. Considering these liners were installed dry from new, I would only recommend using something if the mating area is somewhat porous due to age or pitting etc. And even then, I can't see anything other than plain-jane hylomar not being adequate. Lotus recommended the Hylomar 3400 on their early production V8s specifically because there was a very bad issue with many engines with leaking liners. Because that is not the case with 308s I suspect such an extreme sealent is not necessary.
     
  5. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,468
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    loctite or permatex -same thing- anaerobic sealant is about $20 a tube. the water does indeed weep out between the liner registry at the deck and that adds to the stud corrosion. On all the blocks I've torn down the registry is filled with mineral deposits and coolant staining.
     
  6. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!

    That's exactly what I found and cleaned out over the weekend. Tons of crusted brown gunk in there. Also, in the interest of seeing how squarely the liners meet up with the block, I flipped a liner over and mated it to the registry checking for wiggle room etc. Most of them were fine with no movement but a couple had the smallest amount of see-saw type movement when laying flat on the registry. I tried this with a couple liners and had the same outcome. Thankfully the .002 clearance was correct on all the liners and mating areas, and I'm thinking I should not concern myself much with that particular see-saw mating issue as the actual sealing area is just below that and I will coat that with anaerobic sealer just to make sure anyway.
     
  7. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    ARP just called me. Wanted to get your take on this. Guy at ARP says they have a bolt which has the same thread length and shank diameter but the head is a little different. They say it will work and lock in place just fine and are significantly stronger than stock but I obviously want to be careful. The ARP bolt is for a Oldsmobile 307 series V8 motor and the like. They made a run of rod bolts with their version of Ferrari heads 8 or so years ago but they are all gone and I need to run a rather large order to make it worth it. ARP is suggesting this bolt though. I suppose they are the experts.
     
  8. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    3,931
    CA and OR
    Full Name:
    pit bull
    I sent them a print a few years back and they said there was nothing like my print "off the shelf" ... they said they made some custom for "Black Stallion" or something like that and they were like $40/pc ... they gave me their phone number IIRC but I just used the factory pieces.

    Make sure they're not some knurled thing that needs to be beat into the rod. The factory ones have a very precision o.d. and are works of art. I recall seeing a hardness test "dimple" on them.

    I still have a print ... did you send them a sample?

    cheers
     
  9. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    #59 Ferraripilot, Jul 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yup. I sent a sample and spoke with the 'special orders' department girl who gave it to her guys to do some legwork on. Evidently the shank diamater and length is identical but the head is the issue. It's their type 'A' head and according to them there is no modification needed but the head is a shade less beefy than the OEM head nor is the locking flat side as robust. I don't think I like it.

    This is the type A head vs the stock rod bolt
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    #60 Ferraripilot, Jul 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I spent some time figuring out what size I wanted to use. I like to have the intake seat ID at about 88-90% to that of the intake valve head OD meaning the stock ID was not going to cut the mustard. The seat pinch point is going to be just in the right place for velocity purposes.

    The new seats are great and actually suggested to me by a friend in Las Vegas who is obsessed with old VW bug engines (odd, right?). They have slight taper to the ID as the ID starts at 1.520 and grows to 1.532 at the face sort of making the entire seat already have a performance cut to it. I should have a tiny .015-.020 shoulder around the ID where the seat meets the aluminum itself at the bowl which will of course be removed with port work. The OD of the seat is 1.775 which is about .039 larger than stock (1mm).
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    reference for the books

    block is naked and has no liners. weight is with all studs installed: 62lbs
     
  12. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    #62 Ferraripilot, Sep 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Brand new pistons came in from JE today while I was home for lunch. Great timing right?

    They weigh an incredibly scant 275g each! To put this in perspective, the stock pistons weigh nearly 400g a piece.

    JE did a very nice job making sure the valve pockets were correct for the larger 44mm valves. The depth of the pockets are good. There is basically no dome on these things, which is a good thing. The pic shows a dome, but it is probably 1/4 the size of the stock 2v dome. Domes subtract combustion efficiency and this is pretty much what I was hoping for here. Once all said and done, I am guessing 32-34 degrees total ignition timing will be all it takes to light things up very well. The oil ring really pushes the threshold regarding how far the pin can be moved on these! Maybe .020 room in there but that's it!


    Thus far, I have the following done: large valve seats installed and cut (larger ID and slightly larger OD), nailhead style 44mm intake valves made by Manley, rods resized with new rod bolts, cylinders bored and honed (being done this week), new clutch, resurfaced flywheel, new bearings and gaskets will be here this week,

    and the piece le resistance are the new billet cams coming from a company in Belgium called Catcams. I did not want to use hard welded cams from webcams due to the desire to run more lift than I am comfortable with a hard welded cam running. Those will be in by the week after next and I will of course post pics.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    For some reason 3 of the pics are not loading correctly. More later
     
  14. 4right

    4right F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Looks really nice John, looking forward to watching this come together!
     
  15. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula 3

    Jan 9, 2007
    1,007
    Cape Town South Afri
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Very neat , it's coming together .
     
  16. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,523
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Nice John,

    Steve at JE is a good guy, a real gearhead that knows his stuff im sure he enjoyed the custom order.
     
  17. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    Amazingly, it took him all of 30 seconds to conceptualize and deduce the necessary requirements and knock the design out. Great stuff.

    Note to future readers: Anyone getting Ferrari pistons needs to go through Steve. He knows what you know and need before you know it.
     
  18. gcmerak

    gcmerak Formula 3

    Mar 17, 2008
    1,664
    Engine Bay, Georgia
    Full Name:
    George C.
    Go brother Go!

    :)

    Ciao,
    George
     
  19. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    A sort of interesting situation came up. My cam manufacturer in Belgium emailed me advising I could use stock valve springs and be fine, but in order to free up some parasitic drag I should use their valve springs. What's off about this is that their valve springs have a little lower seat pressure and equally lower open pressure. The specific figure is: 55lbs seat pressure and 180lbs open pressure, while stock is 62lbs seat, and 202lbs open (per Ferrari's odd spec which is open at .350 past seat). Here's the kicker, the springs in question are 50 grams total while the stock springs weigh in at 120grams. Quite a difference. I'm still on the fence about it since 55lbs seat pressure is indeed very little and I am completely against having any valve float.
     
  20. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    I was a little high in my earlier statement regarding stock piston weigh. Stockers weigh in at 331g a pop. So these at 275g each shave 56g of rotating mass from each cylinder, or 448g total from the engine; which is .987lbs.
     
  21. tvision321

    tvision321 Karting
    BANNED

    Jan 4, 2011
    208
    Great thread, please keep the details coming; I used JE pistons on my turbo 3.0 2valve with excellent long term results.

    cheers
     
  22. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    #72 Ferraripilot, Sep 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just came back from a little trip to Las Vegas to see some friends/family and drink entirely too much at the Hofbrauhaus for Oktoberfest.

    While there I had a chance to hang with some local Porsche 911 fanatics (I used to be one, but then found a higher power, aka: Ferrari haha). Anyway, I remember 911 guys having a secret never leak case sealer they use when sealing their engines cases and I couldn't remember exactly what it was. Well, for the archives this is it. It's threebond and I guess it is OEM stuff for Ducati, Suzuki, Honda, and a couple other manufacturers for sealing cases. I will use it for sealing the block to the transaxle. Cheap and easy to find online.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

    Jul 16, 2011
    7,042
    Fairfield,Pa
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Do you use this with a gasket or does this replace a gasket?
     
  24. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,523
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Used as a gasket between machined surfaces where there was no gasket
     
  25. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,920
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    #75 Ferraripilot, Sep 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    This stuff is just for joining flanges/case halves. For gasket coating, the Porsche fanatics are into the stuff Elring makes called Curtil T. Curil T is also used by many as a flange and case sealer as well, but the Porsche guys swear by threebond for case halves and Curil T for everything everywhere else.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

Share This Page