I think NASCAR is only good if you are the driver and if you go to the race in person. but watching it on TV is a no-no for me. there's nothing special and nothing fun about it. But Formula 1 on the other hand I can watch on TV, I can watch in person, and hell if a race was really good (German GP 2011) I can watch it multiple times.
well, not really; the last few years, the battles in F1 have been pretty close, even at the front. usually 3rd thru 8th or 10th or so is a good battle through most of the race. problem is, the TV directors don't often focus on them, instead keeping the cameras solidly locked on the car in front, running away with things.
Absolutely! With a few, generally notable, exceptions it's always been that way - Between 2 & 4 teams generally design and manufacture a car that's capable of winning.[Excluding bizarre circumstances of course.] Plus, they're using 3-4 different engines. These team/engine combinations tend to "rotate" over the years and others come & go. The remainder know they're racing for the lower places and here we see some of the best racing - It's not for the win but it's still often good racing. Then there's the "teammate battles" - I for one wasn't expecting Danny Boy to dust off Tonio so regularly for example. And the Scotalian is keeping Sooty honest etc. *Fascinating* stuff all down the field - I for one even enjoy seeing who's doing what at the back of the field. Don't get me wrong, I've said before I enjoy the destruction derby that is Bristol and a lot of my comments are a little tongue in cheek, but Bristol in particular really is akin as someone said recently to flushing skittles down the toilet and seeing which remains till last! I'd say 3rd thru the back of the field! - It's a huge achievement if a Lotus passes anyone for example..... Oh no! Those things are just so agricultural! [OK, they're strong, and the racing is sometimes pretty good, but they're a long way from an F1 car.......] Cheers, Ian
The problem with your theory is the SPONSORS want results, a win is nice, a few podium finishes help, but there is MUCH better 'racing' in nascar, and I am a lifelong open wheel fan, it kinda hurts for me to say that, but it is the truth, you just can't accept it. You don't hear a sponsor say 'we battled hard, and worked our tails off and finished a hard-earned, well-deserved 13th place today'. And besides, why on earth do you think they go 8 places back in points now?
And that's your problem: only a die-hard knows a front-runner from a tail-ender, you and I, us here, we know the deal, but for them (F1) to attract more fans, there needs to be more parity. I can go out on a limb and say most people know the name 'Ferrari', but if you sell a bunch of tickets for Austin's race, chances are pretty good not many folk will know what a McLaren is, or a Williams, or Red Bull, etc. OTOH, we know the Yankees, Lakers, Cowboys, Red Sox, Steelers, Celtics. Also, if you were to put a list out and tell people in the USA to pick 3 racing drivers, and you list Senna, Schumacher, Vettel, Andretti, AJ Foyt, Earnhardt, I can tell you with a lot of certainty which 3 they will pick. That's not the fault of Americans, it's the fault of F1 failing to promote (here), and it's simply too late to catch up, not with all the other sports there are here, now. Boxing and Horse Racing has the same issue.
If that were the case, there'd be a lot of unsponsored cars out there - I think we agree there's only 3-4 teams that have any chance, the others should be out of business. Regardless, screw the sponsors! I honestly don't give a damn about them in their fancy ass VIP suites - Most of 'em probably couldn't tell you who won the WDC last year - They're irrelevant for the purposes of this debate. OK, the sport needs 'em, and with the exception of HRT they're all touting some pretty big names - Even Torro Rosso just got some serious $ (Cepsa) and Lotus recently signed with GE - These folks want to be "part of the action", they know they're not going to even reach the podium, let alone win [At least until "next year" ] It's not that I don't accept it, I simply disagree. I guess you're saying its better because there's 20 different race leaders? [Yawn]. Or because they bounce into each other [Yawn]. Or someone opens a little lead and out come the famous "phantom yellows" so that Billy-Bob doesn't get confused....... In general I find it incredibly boring - At least until the last few laps when half of 'em run out of gas it seems. You want close, wheel-to-wheel action? Check out the BTCC - Now that's some close racing without the artificial manipulation we seen in Nascar all the time. It's actually 10th now, and it gives a few more guys a chance to score points. *Personally*, I'd rather they'd stuck with the old system (9-6-4-3-2-1) but it's *incredibly* hard for the mid pack to score and we wind up with half the field on zero at the end of the season. No harm counting back a little further. It's still hard to score points, as it should be - Even a single point is cause for huge celebration (and big $) for some of these guys. Cheers, Ian
I am not a big F1 fan admittedly. Been to the German Grand Prix. Had an OK time but not for the money. Would I go again ... NAH. But I do enjoy jerking chains here. People take F1 WAY too seriously. Everything about it is a bit too snobish IMO. It is like wine tasting and art. Sadly, too much 'phoney' in it. And yeah, I do think swapping paint is part and parsel to racing to circular track (Even F1 ends where it starts so get over it)
1) There are a lot of UNDERsponsored cars out there, they just as well might be UNsponsored, but folks sponsor cars for different reasons. 2) Screw the sponsors? Irrelevant to this discussion? I don't even know how to reply to that.... They have no reason to know any prior history, all they want to know is 'what can you do for me today?' Prior history? Tell me, what is the history of the LOTUS team? NONE. They only borrowed the name. 3) You can disagree all you want, and you're still wrong. Stuff you may 'yawn' at a LOT of other people like. IN AMERICA there is a reason nascar is MUCH MUCH better than F1, and it didn't used to be that way, F1 CHOSE to make it that way. You can see a direct parallel with the decline of open-wheel racing and the rise of stock car racing. And again, it pains me to say that, but that's just the way it is. It just depends on where you are, in America I just don't see F1 EVER being popular with the common sports fan, and again, we in america didn't make it that way, F1 chose to price themselves or make demands that are just beyond the scope of being reasonable.
And all those spare seats at every NASCAR race prove that it's racing? 43 cars, 5 or 6 stand a chance, end of story. What's the excuse when they 'engineer' Dani a win? Wet tires? Heck, they wouldn't have but 10 cars finish a race so throw them out, we'll run it on Monday in front of a couple of hundred fans....... Best thing about Nascar is the Nationwide races at Montreal/Elkhart, now THAT'S racing.
16 different winners in nascar this season. End of story? Go do some more homework and get back to me. You can't compare racing in the rain, apples and oranges, only F1 does that, and it's bloody dangerous, idiotic. And don't even try to say nascar SHOULD race in the rain, because then I will say should NHRA? No, nascar never has, never will, even IRL tried it a month ago and got fried for it. Certain nascar drivers do better at certain tracks than others BUT I will admit that for every nascar race there are about 6 that are ALWAYS the favorites picked to win, it just doesn't always turn out that way. F1 has but FIVE guys picked to win, one of them usually does. Empty seats? You quite obviously didn't see the last two F1 races at Indy, did you? F1 races are far from sold out, from what I have seen this season. The argument isn't over the merits of one series over the other, the fact is you simply cannot compare the two, it's two different series, like the NFL vs. Canadian Football, or the NBA all-stars vs. college all-stars.
Great Nascar fan retort sir! And the last 5 championship winners would be? Compare that to F1. Hard to fill seats when they are so many, probably as many empty at this years B'yard as any F1 race there. So, no comment on my Nationwide point? As for just watch the highlights, that's the only way to watch Nascar, 500 mile race, re engineered with a green/white/chequered? As you say, apples and oranges, horses for courses. Only thing we can ALL agree on is the pathetic IRL/Indycar state of affairs. That said, go Smoke!
While there is a huge difference in budget between Ferrari and, say, Lotus none of them are running on a shoestring - As many learnt from the USF1 disaster, just making it to the grid is a major accomplishment - None of these guys are "broke" by any stretch of the imagination. Would they like additional money? Certainly, but they're out there running within 107% - That's all that matters to me. I really don't care what they spend (within the terms of the RRA) or where the money comes from. I wasn't looking for a reply, and I'll say it again; The sponsors have zero impact upon my enjoyment of the sport. They can pose around the VIP club without knowing anything about it and as long as they don't affect the racing, I don't give a damn. I don't care that most of 'em couldn't tell a Lotus from a Renault () or have any clue as to the history of the sport. I do think it's good to have such a storied name as Lotus running again, even if it is in name only. I'd like to see Tyrell, Brabham and BRM resurrected. In your opinion. In mine, you are wrong, and that's fine - As I said above, to each their own. I disagree. It's more *popular*, but that doesn't make it better. If you enjoy it, fine, that's your choice. I happen to find it VERY, VERY boring and I yawn at it a lot..... We beg to differ here too - I think a properly promoted F1 race, at a world class facility will get very good attendance once a year. I believe there's a pent up demand from around the country and lots of folks will show up. Although, as we know, attendance is not a concern of the Pygmy or the teams - They get paid regardless. I'm not saying that's right, just the way it is. If you don't like the heat, don't come into the kitchen - There seems to be plenty of other places that want to host a race. Cheers, Ian
And that means the racing is better? Or that they have 20 different leaders in every race means it's better? Fair enough, your opinion. To me, the skittles down the toilet analogy is spot on - Let 'em whiz round for a few hours and see who's left at the end - Boring! Cheers, Ian
I guess from that respect it's only slightly better than the 'Who will win, Hammy, Vettel, Alonso, Webber or Button???' You NEVER hear anyone even CONSIDERING anyone capable of winning outside of those five, but in nascar you hear folks considering JJohnson, JGordon, Kyle, Kurt, Kevin, Brad, Matt, Carl, Tony, Ryan, and about eight others depending on the track. Forget the fact they go in circles, because some folks (like me) will bring up about F1: 'Here he comes, there he goes, disappeared, we'll see him again in 2-3-4 minutes...', so yay, an 80 lap race, you spend a lot of money on a ticket, and you see each car for what, maybe ten seconds a lap? (depending on the track, of course). I guess I am just screwed up because I fully understand the differences of the series, both have pros and cons, they are different, I take each one for what they are worth. I WILL say this: F1 and nascar both beat the hell out of IRL, but that's also just my opinion, others may LOVE the IRL and hate F1 and nascar, that's fine with me.
We agree! As I've said before, I enjoyed Bristol and certainly the ability to see the whole track is cool. In my "younger days" of watching F1 we'd often keep a lap chart in addition to a couple of S/watches running.... I recall I'd been to club races at Brands many times - From my usual location at Paddock I lost 'em briefly going out of Bottom Bend, then they were back. Then I go to my first F1 race there, and they disappeared for *minutes* - WTF!? - I didn't understand the "long circuit" till the second session! :embarrassed: [In my defense, I was only about 6-7 though ] For sure, there can be many "bad" seats around a GP circuit. We agree again! I've said before, I love pretty much all motorsport, and the last few laps of a taxicab race can be pretty good..... Cheers, Ian
Jim, My wife saw your second picture and goes... "Why aren't they watching the F1? You can sunbath anywhere." Hehehe All the best, Andrew.
