So, after about 2 weeks and a little more than 600 miles, I think I have "bonded" with my 3 pedal F430! After the GT3, I felt the F430 was a little too light in the steering, and the 6 speed hard to shift fast and smooth. Over the past week, I have been really trying to work on my shifting in this car. I have driven manuals for over 20 years, and have over 100 track days, but I had never owned a car with such a light flywheel. The revs on this car drop and rise INSTANTLY. Tonight, I took the car out, and, it all just "clicked!" I finally figured out the timing for my throttle blips, and, now that I got it, I LOVE the lightweight flywheel. The trick seems to be to do the blip much later than before. Also, upshifts need to be done with a slight amount of throttle so the revs don't drop. I was able to do a super smooth, fast 3-2 downshift under hard braking...just hearing the sound of that perfect blip on the engine put such a huge grin on my face. And the gated shifter has become second nature now, I can place the gearbox where I want it smoothly, and it just "clinks" into position. Magic! The steering that felt light, now feels balanced and responsive as I can feel the weight transfer around the chassis with my inputs. Even the horn buttons, which seemed foreign to me before are perfectly placed. And, most importantly, the manitino. I can click it around with just two fingers off the wheel, I think I could even do it with driving gloves on, now I see the logic of its placement and design. more importantly, the ability to INSTANTLY change the setup on the car is invaluable, I can go from soft and compliant when the road is bumpy to firm and responsive in an instant as conditions warrant. Folks, you need to really use this device liberally to get all you can out of this car. This is such a fun street car, I really "get it" now. Today started out as a tough day and I came home with a scowl on my face. A nice drive in my car and I have a huge grin! How can you beat that!
Can you please elaborate in detail with an example the downshift and blip routine? I am not getting it yet with this car, the revs drop too fast. Thanks in advance. Now with my Gt3 the pedal placement made it harder but the revs did not drop so fast. Btw this is vbmw335i from rennlist. I told you you will love this car!
VF430- I have a 360 stick but the same principals apply: when downshifting you have to increase the revs with the throttle with the side of your foot to "match revs" (also referred to as "heel and toe downshifts", although you are really using the ball of your right foot (the bone the toe attachs to) to brake and the side of your foot to press the throttle). When I say match revs, another way of putting this is the act of bringing the revs as close as possible to where they will be when the clutch is engaged in the lower gear (i.e. revs will need to be higher then they were in the prior gear). This should be done in any stick shift car, but is "needed more" in a car that has such a wide range of operating RPM (800-8500 RPM in the 360/430) plus with a lightweight flywheel the variance in engine speed will be that much greater if you did nothing as the revs drop even more than in a car with a heavier flywheel when they need to be higher by the time the clutch is engaged in the lower gear! When upshifting, you may need to "blip" the throttle to keep the revs from falling too much for a smooth upshift, often with normal driving where you're not going all out with high revs and shifting into the next gear very fast. The revs during the upshift fall quicker then they would in a car with a heavier flywheel. The benefit to the set up with the light flywheel that the 360/430 has (and maybe other earlier models- I never drove a 355 and drove a 348 10 years ago so I don't recall if it too has a relatively light flywheel) is (1) less rotational mass allows quicker revving/acceleration, (2) the abiltiy to execute perfect heel and toe downshifts (you can adjust the engine speed instantly vs a car with a heavier flywheel where the engine speed can't be adjusted as quickly, and (3) when driving all out i.e. 8-8,500 rpm upshifts Ferrari has PERFECTLY calibrated the car to simply shift fast and be at the exact right RPM when your foot comes off the clutch. All of 1-3 are for maximum performance which makes sense in a car like the performance model of Ferrari (i.e. the mid-engined V8 model). I am describing this in great detail, but in actuality once you understand the concept like the original poster rlips, you can get very good at it relatively quickly. The adjusted driving style becomes second nature and you don't even think of it specifically per se, you automatically adjust your driving to execute smooth upshifts (i.e. blipping, or even mentally getting back on the gas a few milliseconds sooner than you would driving a "normal" stick car) and downshifts. The involvement during driving the car is very satisfactory and you are "one" with the car. I think the only way to feel as connected to the car in an F1 equipped car would be when driving all out on the track. In other words, in my opinion while F1 ferrari is an involving car to drive, it can't match the involvement of a stick car unless driven very hard. I have two unrelated comments to make- this summer I was wearing flip flops a few times and drive the ferrari in bare feet, which may not be recommended but I wasn't driving on a track The connection to the car was that much greater- feeling the percise movement of the metal pedals, and the heel/toe downshifting was even better There is no other car that gives the sensory feedback of the 360/430 in my mind! The other comment is regarding the mannetino switch- rlips brings up some interesting comments on use of the device (i.e. adjusting the suspension a lot while driving), but for me personally it is overkill to have that on the steering wheel. I have never had an issue reaching the couple of inches to hit the suspension sport switch on my 360, and would much rather have the buttonless 3-spoke rim of the 360. I will admit rlips brings up some points I had not thought of regarding the convience of having the switch "right there" on the wheel, but for me I don't like it there. The 360 has the best modern wheel in a ferrari in my opinion- simple 3-spoke sports design with NO Zero Zilch buttons on it beyond the horn which is the way I want it in a sports car. I've driven a 458 and it is simply nuts what ferrari put on the steering wheel- way way overboard, and I otherwise love the 458 design.
I'll second this thread, it is different than the PCars. I've had my 360 now for a year and I'm just now getting "smooth" with the shifter. I haven't blipped the throttle, just gotten used to the RPM's.. My wife drove the car for the first time last week and she's driven stick for her entire life.. her comment: "It's different". ps- Andrew, if I buy a 458 in the future and I have the $$$ to make it a reality.. I'm going to convert it to a gated shifter with 430/360 parts. ;-)
Pretty much the perfect reply. I've always thought this was a very overlooked aspect of driving a manual, which, if you get it right, produces a huge amount of extra driving satisfaction. In my opinion, far more so than simply flapping paddles. Something worth remembering is that the accelerator pedal on a 360 and, I assume, 430, is adjustable in it's resting position. Properly set up for your driving style it is far easier to reach by rolling your right foot when braking than it otherwise would be. For example, if you tend to brake heavily, set the accelerator lower at rest, so it alines itself with the brake when that pedal is depressed. It's trial and error but easily done. It really does make the world of difference to the rolling technique, over a pedal that isn't set up correctly. My experience with Porsche is that a proper 'heal and toe' technique is needed, whereas the Ferrari needs the more delicate, foot rolling, approach. Once mastered I believe everyones enjoyment of their cars would soar. My 360 is utterly sublime in every department, I never want to part with it, running costs are irrelevant, owning it just makes me happy. No price can be put on that... Happy motoring!
I think the main thing is the timing of the blip, in this car; it is much later. Basically, to break it down: clutch in while keeping the thottle slightly open to keep the revs where they are, then move the shifter, then simultainiously blip and release the clutch. With a heavier flywheel, I would blip a bit before release of clutch to allow the engine time to rev up, with this car, it is critical to do the blip pretty much at the instant of clutch release. Once done right, it is fantastic, the sound is very racy. On upshifts, as mentioned above, keep the throttle open to match the revs to the new gear. The way I practiced this is to note the sound of the engine in the new gear, then repeat the shift but slow everything down and attempt to match the anticipated engine note with throttle only. So, to practice, say 3-4 upshft: 1) steady speed in 3rd, listen to engine note. 2) upshift as best you can to 4th, listen to new engine note. 3) engage clutch, and with clutch engaged, use throttle to attempt to match engine note that you heard in 3rd. Shift back to 3rd. 4) resume steady speed from step 1 5) engage clutch, with clutch engaged, match anticipated engine note for 4th gear 6) release clutch; shift should feel smooth with no change in engine note 7) repeat 1-6 over and over until you have a good idea of what sound the engine will make in the next gear and can get the engine to make that sound in neuatral with throttle control only. Of course, this works for me as I have a degree in music, so I hear things well. Plus, the practice is super fun. 6 speed = a different level of involvelment, IMO. Not better or worse than F1, just different. I like it! Cheers, Ron
I confess I think I do "vanity" downshifts, blipping more than strictly needed. Gave my 2.5 y.o. daughter a ride on Sunday. After a couple "extra obvious" downshifts she said "VROOM, VROOM. The Ferrari is my favorite car. What's YOUR favorite car dad?" Previously, her "favorite" was the Volt. I'm making progress.
+1 on the gas pedal height adjustment thing. I always set it lower for the track day or hard driving. shifting up: I just do it quick, clutch in, clutch out very quickly. rpm don't drop too much if you do it quick. Sometimes it might not be perfectly smooth so what the F1 gearbox are very jerky. Same goes for heel-toe. I press the clutch blip the throttle and yank the stick almost at the same time. the higher the rpm the smoother it is. try searching for video of professional driver's foot work, shifting is quick, crisp, clean.
Senna is a legend. I got scared just watching the video. I'd probably soil my pants if I was in the car with him.
