Value reduction for non matching dino gt?

I know records exist. The last time I looked they said a build sheet would cost me several thousands of $. It would be nice if I could get the info without having to do the formal process. I am sure it is worth it for an expensive, limited, Ferrari. At this point, I can not justify the certification process for my Dino. I'm not selling anytime soon.

 

Bob,

Matthias is THE best resource. He "somehow" has all the records! Even if you pay Ferrari they won't give you copies of the build sheets. In the past, years ago it was possible, especially friends of Enzo.

Freeman

 

I have been in contact with Matthias. I can not wait for his book. He is the guy that inspired me to start my research project on my car (I do not think he knows that, but all his help is what has kept me going.)

I hope we can get some real data on the importance of matching numbers. What is really important and what is not so important. I would like to know if it is worth the $s to make sure everything is correct. What I think would be important is the right engine/gearbox/body match. Not serial numbers necessarily but correct for the year. Like I have said, getting the build data is near impossible anyhow.

I hope others can chime in and give their opinion.

 

Bill, I really appreciate that you take the time to comment on this board. Thank you.

I am wondering about the logistics of this on your end. Say a Dino owner drives his car down to you to see what you'll give him for it. Do you put the car on a lift, write down all the numbers, then somehow contact Ferrari to see if they are all correct before giving the owner an offer?

Can you share with us how you get that info with a phone call?

Of all the Dinos I have seen go to auction in Monterey I don't recall any of them mentioning "matching numbers" because no one knows what they are supposed to be.

Thank you.

 

I have to echo Pantdino, I would like to hear what other think. I too have not heard about numbers matching on Dinos at auction. It seems to me that buyers would want to know that but I have not heard much. When I bought mine as a kid in 1984, it did not matter to me.... but now, in 2011, I would think it would be important.

 

Hi Guys,

I am working today with a client on an important race car sale... tomorrow I have some local shows but happy to share what we do as a general rule of thumb when we buy cars.

Don't think everything is fool proof. We bought a Ferrari not long ago that turned out to have a chassis number stamp that had transposed digits from its chassis plate.... Luigi must have hit the bottle at lunch that day half-way through assembling the car!

Ciao,

Bill

 

One has to be suspicious when for decades no data exists then suddenly it does for a high price.

One problem with Abarths is that Carlo kept no records of chassis numbers of Fiats which had been converted into 850TCs, 1000TCs, etc and left the factory bearing his name, so it is not completely ridiculous that Enzo didn't care what engine numbers were in Dinos. The whole idea of the Dino was to shift to higher production numbers and maybe he decided he didn't want to be bothered keeping records.

"Let's see, have a glass of wine and boink mistress, or keep lists of numbers? Think I'll do the former."

 

Ferrari Classiche has all engine, gearbox and body no`s registered for all Dinos.
For every Dino a "Foglio Montaggio" was prepared documentating these numbers.

 

And how having a copy of these gems w/o paying an horrible fee ?!!?

 

no, only possible to get a copy if you do full certification, costs are around Euro 3.000,- for full certification of a Dino

 

This would mean that someone flat out lied to Denny in the past.
How do we know they are telling the truth now?

 

The factory has the numbers

 

Depends on which side of the negotiating table you sit.

If you are selling, matching numbers are not important.
If you are seriously buying, matching numbers are not important.

If you are looking for an excuse not to buy, then matching numbers are important only in a car that is non-matching.

Given a universe of 3500 cars (plus or minus), a handful for sale at any particular moment, and the collectible nature of the car, it doesn't mount to a hill of beans (numbers).

If you are passionate about the car, and only a few are for sale, numbers will mean little. And why would anyone in their right mind buy a collectible car? Thus to purchase a Dino you must be passionate. QED.

If you wish to sell, but the money is not needed for your kid's brain surgery, you will wait. Patience is a virtue. Numbers or no numbers, if you want my car, you will pay my price. If you believe the price is too high, then find another car. (This statement is not intended to reflect arrogance in this observer, merely the nature of selling an item that can't be had at the local Walmart).

Jim S.

 

Or someone was just trying to make up a reason not to look/research/spend time on such mundane things.

 

Per Bill Noon's comment below, I think this is getting to be a bigger issue with the wider availability of information concerning these cars' original configurations, and their escalating values. When I bought my 356, the Certificate of Authenticity did not indicate the orginal color, but perhaps not surprisingly the Reuter paint codes by chassis number have been published -- so ignorance in 2011 is more a matter of choice.

If I were a buyer, I would certainly pay more for a car that is "all there" - original engine, original chairs/flares, orginal color. But I agree with Nuvolari that the % will fluctuate based on the buyer.

With nice ones going over $200K now, I would have to agree with this. The difference in price between a very nice but non-matching car vs. a matching numbers car will probably increase.

"If priced attractively" is the operative phrase.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 20% spread in 356 SC cabriolets matching vs. non-matching -- maybe Bill has guidance on this as well. My guess on pushrod Speedsters is that there may be a $10K-$20K spread. Again, I'm not a dealer so will defer to those with better data.

Like it or not, at $200K+, investor value comes into play as much as driveability. Blue chip cars will be matching numbers, IMHO. Also, keep in mind it costs just as much the restore a non-matching numbers car...

Whether someone should pay a premium is a very fair question. It depends on your purpose in owning the car in the first place.

 

I have seen it....