LH and the fallout of the Button new deal | Page 3 | FerrariChat

LH and the fallout of the Button new deal

Discussion in 'F1' started by DF1, Oct 5, 2011.

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  1. IanMac

    IanMac Formula 3

    Jul 26, 2006
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    Ian
    Isn't it amazing how things change? A couple of years ago the collective wisdom that is FerrariChat was insisting that Hamilton should GET RID of his dad, who was deemed to be the bad influence in his career.
     
  2. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    A man of Lewis' age and experience has to be able to deliver without needing his Daddies there to slap his hand when he throws a tantrum.
    He ran true to form again today and at this point I don't see what could possibly happen to realign the man's attitude. What a waste. He could have been a giant.
     
  3. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    +1

    I was going to try and dig up a few quotes on the subject, but really can't be bothered.

    Seems dad has leveraged himself a good gig managing Scotalian, and he seems to be keeping his nose clean......

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  4. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2005
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    +1....but Button is also 34 years old. Lewis is still in his "invincible" mid-20's.
     
  5. Paul Vincent

    Paul Vincent Formula Junior

    Apr 3, 2004
    478
  6. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Raymond Luxury Yacht
    Lest we forget...

    -Just over a year ago, people said Vettel was not mature enough to be a WDC (after he crashed into Webber) and those same people said Vettel needs time to mature, to calm down and until he does, he won't be a great driver

    -Many of those same people said Button was washed up and got lucky at Brawn, and signing at McLaren was a really bad career move

    -Many (some of the same) people said MS was washed up and should never have come back

    -Many people called the 2010 a loss for Ferrari after only a few races, and suggested they should abandon the season in favor of 2011

    -Many people thought MS had matured and become magnanimous and kind as he aged as a driver


    F1 fans are hugely fickle. If you're doing well today, they knew you had "it" all along, and you're the most awesome guy in the world. If you have a bad streak, or even a couple of races, or hell, even sometimes just one bad incident, you're immature, stupid, have no talent, are past it, etc, etc.

    It is what it is... but I am amazed that so many are so very opinionated when they have been wrong so many times. I think there is a much simpler explanation, which is...

    All these guys love to win and hate to lose. Some are more competitive than others and "lose it" more than others when things aren't going their way. I think evidence suggests those drivers tend to be the fastest guys, with the most WDC's and best racers. The only difference between a magnanimous helpful and kind F1 driver and a nasty troll-like devil as painted here is how easy they have it.
     
  7. xpensivewino

    xpensivewino Formula Junior

    Jan 26, 2008
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    #57 xpensivewino, Oct 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2011
    That is the perfect place for him. They will reward him for running into other peoples cars. The whole truck is worth less than a Ferrari front wing!! Massa will be thrilled. I don't know if Nascar can take anymore egotistical {drivers}....that spot is taken by Montoya
     
  8. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 4, 2004
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    #58 LightGuy, Oct 11, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2011
    I think Button did a fire job in defending his, the drivers, and perhaps more so Lewis's position in reguards to interveiws and statements in general when Will Buxton interveiwed him before the last race.
    His position was that these are highly wound people in general and when something goes wrong for a driver, then a microphone is put in front of him, anything can come out.
    Lewis wears his emotions on his sleeve.
    I kind of like that.
    Back when MS was doing post race interveiws I would turn off the TV; everything said was politically correct and I'm sure rehearsed.

    Vettel's time right now is in the sun.
    When he has a couple of loosing seasons only then we'll see his mettle.

    Like Frank Williams said a long time back they are all a bunch of bastards. They have to be.
    If they werent they wouldnt be on the grid in the first place.
     
  9. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 4, 2004
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    #59 LightGuy, Oct 11, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2011
    PS; Just read the Brawn article and he states much the same about Vettel.
    I've said this before so am not just jumping on this train.
     
  10. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2005
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    Well said!
     
  11. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    while aggression and egotism are givens for successful racers so is judgement and restraint. We've seen a number of incidents where Lewis acted rashly and either lost positions or crashed out. No matter how you parse it that's not the way to win.
     
  12. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
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    Agreed, to a extent.

    IMO this year tyre saving and smooth driving has gone along way to getting Button where he is now.

    This is at total odds to Hamiltons driving style nailing everything in front of him, instead of letting the race come to him, the last race I believe he would have got pole had he not missed out, then he wouldn't have been behind Massa ect.

    Lewis has always had a win at any cost mentality, not that I think that is wrong, but depending on what the rules ect are served up, it does play a part on how to win a race.

    Oh and thats besides the fact he has managed to piss off alot of other drivers, that are making it hard work for him.

    This year starting on pole in a Redbull more or less means you win, Vettel has shown that, but I'm not sure whether Webber has been held back, because IMO Button Hamilton Alonso and possibly a good few more drivers would win in it.

    Right now Vettel has just about got the right balance, but I don't think it will take too much to rattle him though, this is why he was desperate to stay in the lead at the start of the last race, when he didn't really need to.
     
  13. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jensen's just enuf to win style pays off much more regularly than Lewis' b@lls out style does.
    The problem with "all or nothing" is that you end up with nothing too often.
     
  14. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #64 kraftwerk, Oct 11, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2011
    Agreed, it is having the right amount/balance of both.

    But it aint over yet..:)
     
  15. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Don't get me wrong. It's because I admire Lewis that it frustrates me so much when he scuppers himself. He's probably the most talented driver in F1 today and could be one of the all time greats.
    I hope he gets his head together but knowing what I do of human nature I'm not optimistic.
     
  16. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2003
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    Reminds me of J.Villeneuv.....came in like gang busters, flashed, and faded pretty quickly. Hamilton is on the same path and honestly, I hope he follows it (no, not a big fan to say the least).
     
  17. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    Oh, puh-leaze!!! Jacques benefited from having the best car on the grid (by far!). Once he didn't, he was exposed. (Not to mention he made some pretty poor career-management decisions. WTH is Williams Mechachrome anyway???)

    At least you're honest...you dislike Hamilton so you admit your bias. I think he's a huge talent who will benefit greatly from his struggles over the last half of the season (since Monaco, though he won a race after that). Remember that he was in 2nd position before the whole Massa/Schumacher (dare I say Button?) bumper-car action started. His habitual crashing started after Monaco and it still seems like there is an unwritten edict out among the grid to make life as hard for him as possible.

    I think he'll definitely benefit from this year as a driver, not to mention how he has ALREADY grown in managing what he says to the press (much to my chagrin...I like to hear the unfiltered thoughts).
     
  18. RS man

    RS man Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2008
    334
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    Problem is he thinks he is Senna! I think he has to think again. If he had the attributes of Button, he will be unbeatable.
     
  19. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Well yes and no, agreed if he thought a race through and went about it like Button, yes unbeatable.

    He isn't Senna and never will be, I'd like to think he is not that naive to believe he is Senna.

    However if he wants to look up to great driver and try to emulate him, I see no reason why that can cause him any harm.
     
  20. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    I am beyond tired of seeing Hamilton and Senna in the same sentence. It's so old-hat at this point. He needs to be his own man. There was only one Senna and LH and his fans need to realize that. You don't see Vettel going around blabbing on about MS even though he was his idol growing up. Vettel is his own man.
     
  21. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I agree but what can ya do, It is not Hamilton himself that is banging on about Senna though is it.

    From a JS blog and some sense, and pretty much what I have been saying:

     
  22. Greenback

    Greenback Karting

    Mar 24, 2005
    57
    Any driver who got it to pole will naturally want to stay ahead at the start else there is no point risking himself during qualifying. what Vettel did at Suzuka reminds me alot of other great WDC, they are never the nicest guys on the grid, yet at the same time, they always do thing that pushes to the extreme boundary without getting penalized.

    I got a bad feeling that RBR and Vettel will continue to dominate until we see a major technical shake up in the engine. I have a strong feel that RB6 and 7 strength could be down to the renault engine, which unfortunately will remain freeze till 2014.
     
  23. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Well, IMO Vettel did not need to risk pushing Button wide at the start, risking taking himself out. If Button had not gone onto the grass they would have hit.

    So IMO Vettel does show Hamilton MS traits, all the top guns do, only Hamilton seems to remain in the spot light.

    Vettel only needed to stay in the top ten to win his WDC, he was reminded of this by his team when Alonso got the jump on him and he wanted it back.

    I agree all the top guns have a aggressive streak, it is part and parcel of what makes them the best.

    Possible we are in for another Redbull run away next year, but IMO it won't be as easy for them, as this year.
     
  24. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 27, 2005
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    At the end of the article it questions why F1 drivers don't have coaches.

    I find it interesting that the one person Vettel single out as most important to the TEAM winning the Championship was his trainer. And he has no manager. To me, that says what is most important to him is how well he does his job, not how much he gets paid for it, or how well his team takes care of him.

    I get the feeling Lewis thinks he already has the skill, if only everyone else would do their job correctly.
     
  25. RS man

    RS man Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2008
    334
    Scotland
    I think there was a quote by Hamilton about only listening to Senna sometime ago when criticised. You are right, he needs to be his own man - he has to reflect what has gone wrong this season and why Button has scored more points than him. Racers cannot be just blindingly fast, they also have to use their brain!
     

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