RB8 behind the game?

Yes, with the DDD gimmick which offered about the same level of downforce the EBD offers meaning their suspension packaging could remain the same. My point is that Red Bull's dynamic and design strategy is going to have to be different as the rear end technology is just not there any more. We will not see the RB with a soft front end with lots of camber and high rake. It will have to be something different to move with the times.

 

To think that RB is just sharpening their pencils at this time is foolish. There is no doubt in my mind that they're well along in the design/construction process.
These guys aren't fools.

 

I gasped as well...it was a pretty exciting moment!

Have to say Alonso really matured this season...

 

I think so too. In the past, I had grown tired of his whining (justified or not) but this year he has had realistic expectations and seems to be making the most out of the very little that was given him.

 

Ferrari is getting its money's worth with Alonso.
The fact that he's come so far gives me hope that Lewis might mature as well.

 

I believe you take a look at the Silverstone results from this year and it will give you some indication of what may be to come. IMHO Mercedes is the wild card.....they are committed and it will likely be Schueys last year in a F1 Car. RB will not be able to take advantage of the forward biased rake due to the 2012 regs. Mclaren also will likely suffer due to this, and if Ferrari just happens to get a few things correct it may be a helluva year. Speaking for myself it was an amazing 2010 to have 5 drivers in contention until Korea, and would love to see something similar again. For me Jenson has been the best surprise of 2011, kicking Hams arse for the last 2 months or so.

 

No, they are defeinitely not sharpening their pencils. But they are nowhere near where the other teams are in developement and build. This is per Newey himself who admitted the cars are not built and the basic design and suspension design are still not done.

 

Either Adrian is having a bit of fun or something is seriously F'd up at RB.
What dramatic upgrades have there been to the car lately that would have monopolized the design team?
Unless they're Ned in a shed they should be able to do both.

 

Well the dramatic changes on RB7 are evident. The front wing changes at almost every race, the diffuser changes, the diffuser extended and flapped gurney changes, the RB floor is different at many races. I am amazed how RB could claim they were within the RRA considering the massive changes they have at so many races. And yes, this would have a huge impact on developing and building the following year contender. Resources are only so plentiful for the operating model they currently have.

 

Yup,

Thanks for the correction. 2004 the Ferrari was massively dominant... 2005, I remember seeing MS duking it out with Webber in a Jaguar for mid-pack positions.

 

Sorry Andreas, but that's crap.

Nobody knows what a rule change will affect. You're looking at it in hindsight and blaming the reason for the change on the effect. Nobody knew what the effect would be, so it's a false connection.

As I said, nobody was better suited to rise to a rule change about tires than Ferrari. They had the entire resources of a tire manufacturer working solely for them, and they had their own test track.

The tire rule was part of the attempt to decrease costs - they also required engines to last 2 races, and they made aero changes which *were* overtly designed to increase competition, because it was supposed to reduce downforce and make it easier to pass.

It's naive to think that nothing will change until the engine rules come into effect. If you look back at the past 20 years of F1, it's rare that teams dominate for more than 2 or 3 years, and that domination tends to be shortened with the R&D cycles of the last 10 years.

I'm happy to bet you that RBR doesn't win the WDC or WCC next year, if you're game

 

Yup.

People said the same thing after a few races last year too - and now MS is regularly beating Rosberg this year. He's only 7 points behind in WDC points, despite having five retirements to Rosberg's two retirements.

And actually, considering MS had just over half the points of NR last year, that represents a huge improvement for Schumi. And Rosberg is no slouch. He's fast.

And I can't quite recall any of those saying he's washed up and should stop "embarrassing" himself man up and admit they were wrong.

 

Indeed. FIA had done everything possible to try to de-rail Ferrari during the MS/Todt/Barns/Brawn era. The changes ranged from scoring system, qualifying system, engines rules and it was finally the one-set of tire per race rule that did the trick in 2005. With the exception of the "race" at Indy, Michelin and their teams took a gamble for the season which resulted in Alonso's first of the two titles.

 

Statistically MS is the best starter in the field this year. He's always making up grid spots on the first lap of every race. The retirements have just really hurt him.

 

Exactly. Do the math and even if Michael was 10th place for the races he DNF (not including DNFs were they were his fault, arguably) Michael is ahead of Nico in the points, and this is including if Nico had not DNF as well. Not difficult to argue Michael is the better racing driver this season for sure. Nico is constantly having tire problems during the race, while Michael has just fantastic pace in comparison under the same conditions.

 

There are a lot of ifs and buts there!


but yeah.

 

Sounds good

 

Source? Link?

 

Brundle says it almost every race on BBC. Iirc, something like 24 first-lap places this season before Korea or Suzuka.

 

Funny enough Swiss Blick crowned Buemi as the best starter last time I checked (which I believe was before Suzuka).

http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/buemi-der-startkoenig-183364

They mention MS as being 2nd.

We had this discussion here on FChat early in the season and I was wondering on what such statistics are based: The positions after the first corner or at the end of the first lap? It is insanely difficult to maintain such statistics unless they're not based on the official results after the first lap. Maybe TV commentators have printouts/freeze data feeds of the positions 10 seconds after the start or something, but for us to follow that process is very difficult. I know because I tried to figure out that statistic and hence I have some doubts (whether the source is BBC or Blick).

MS did make lots of great starts this season, so he is certainly one of the contestants, but I couldn't say with any certainty that he or anybody else "wins" this category.

 

Agreed. The article says MS 20, Buemi 22. Even if it's a 24 for MS that's a slim margin and probably changes with his and STR's varying qualifying.

 

That's the thing though, isn't it? If you qualy badly, suddenly you're a good starter just because all the cars around you are slower....if you qualy better, you're near faster cars = harder to pass.

Nothing more than a slightly interesting statistic, IMO

 

With the tires being what they are I have to agreed. That being said, Michael is infinity better than has teammate at it which is where it counts. Matter of fact, Michael is better in all categories compared to his teammate other than qualifying.

 

+1

And as I said before: A statistic, that is very hard to measure unless you have real time GPS feed and a way to record it. And somehow I doubt that any reporter has the stamina to actually seriously wade through all that stuff. It's a lot easier to make up such numbers on the fly.

 

Making the best start is of limited use if you're too far back on the grid.
Not surprised that MS does it so well as its an acquired skill. Still hasn't been enough to put him in the lead at turn one though.