Porsche 928 and TR... can it (928) "hang"

Why do you think the TR will self-destruct under normal spirited use ?

 

I had a TR for 10 years, as well as a 1983 928 'S', and a 1988 928 S4. Both were 5 speeds. My S4 had some suspension work and a little ECU massage. The S4 could hang with the TR, but the TR had much more character.

I loved both, but if push came to shove, the TR would have been the one to stay.

Having said that, I am getting an itch for a GTS!

 

Hey Curt,
Thanks for having fun with my spirited post, you are obviously a good egg.

These debates are not only great to explore more the more esoteric insights into these cars, but to have some fun jousting as well. I am enjoying the contributions here.

Cheers,
W

 

that guy TV on rennlist is bar none one of the biggest 928 nutswingers I've ever had the displeasure conversing with. He will literally not admit any fault in the 928 and spends every waking moment of his life trying to convince everybody the 928 is better than the 911.

He compares the 928 to a modern day 599.

The guy is borderline mentally deficient if you ask me.

 

a 5sp 928 gts is a very, very rapid machine! i bet a gts would beat a tr soundly around a track like road atlanta or laguna seca. at daytona, maybe (just maybe) a tr has some advantage.

if an endurance format for speed was the measure...the porsche ALWAYS wins!

and to the poster comparing a worked 930 turbo and a tr performancewise...yes the modded 930 leaves the tr for dead!

btw, i am a porsche guy that also owns a flat 12 ferrari.

pcb

 

i would say he is actually not too far off the reservation. i have mentioned to others but i think a 5sp gts is among the very greatest gt cars ever built...period!!!!!

 

I am an old married man (Very Happy 23 yrs) so take this in context. I ask you... which picks up more chicks a Testarossa or a 928? which would you be rather driving? 928s are a dime a dozen... owning/driving your Ferraris is a life event without compare!

 

It's funny how everyone takes this matter so personal. It reminds me of the days when we would say "My dad can beat up your dad". I guess some want to believe their personal cars are "better" than anything.

As for comparing a TR to Porsche, I also own a '97 911 C4S, an '88 944T and a '04 Cayenne TT. I could try to define which is "better" by comparing performance specs with various measurements such as 0-60, 0-100, 60-100, 1/4 mile, seconds to mile, and top speed.
Each car has bragging rights to claim the best times in these parameters. Do I care?
None of this concerns me because the Testarossa is timeless and therefore performance/time doesn't matter!

 

Well said! It really DOES NOT matter. My TR is just fun and there is something about having the 12 right behind your back. I have always dreamed about having one since I saw their introduction at Lake Forest Ferrari in Chicago in 84. btw, my Dino is no street burner, but you will never get it out of my hands because I just think it is beautiful... I do not care about specs.

 

I couldn't disagree more.

The early models were hopeless underpowered, it had a 3spd junkbox automatic for while, the TBF is a major issue, as are the water pump impellar issues. The cars are not fast, they are not agile, and they are far from attractive.

In other words, if you gave one to me, I'd light it on fire.

 

DB9 ... thumbs up! Send me pictures if you pick one up.
Cheers,
Bob

 

i am in violent agreement with all in this post!!!!!

enjoy two fantastic machines!!!

pcb

 

I had no chance in my TR compared to the Carrera GT in Germany last year.. I had 180 mph at the most before catching up with traffic.. (only confirmed by the speedo)

928? Give me a break
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As both a 928 and a TR owner, I feel somewhat qualified to chime in on this topic. I have owned my 1987 TR since early 2001, and bought my third 928, a 1989 S4 5-speed with rear muffler bypass, around 2004. So I have had years of ownership overlap. Until about a year ago, I daily drove the 928 to work -- about an hour commute. I have driven the 928 to and from Montreal for the F1 race, and have also driven the TR to and from Montreal for the F1 race. Driving to Montreal from the D.C. area gives drivers a LOT of open road, in the Syracuse/Watertown area, as well as more than 100 miles on 401 East in Canada, where there is essentially no speed limit.

Here is my take, and I know I will get numerous boos from the crowd. In my view, there is nothing like a late-model 928 5-speed. The pull is insane, the sound is insane, and the look is insane. (I know a lot of people think otherwise on the looks). I would definitely say that up to about 100 -135 mph, the 928 easily keeps up with the TR performance-wise.

I think that where the cars part ways is when you get to the 130 mph+ arena. Then the TR firmly plants itself aerodynamically and really wants to start stretching its legs. As you pass through the 135, 145, 155, 160 mph zones, the TR is totally in its comfort zone. The 928 is rated at 171 mph top speed, although I have only had it up to around 150. While the 928 does okay at that speed, it just doesn't have the solid firm feel that the TR does in that range.

But I strongly urge that if you have not driven a good example of an S4 (or later -- GT, GTS) 5-speed, do so before making any comparisons or judgments. The feel and pull of the 928 would shock you -- I have owned three different models. It blows away my 911, that's for sure. Whenever people would come to my garage and ask which I enjoy driving the most, I always have pointed to the 928. The comfortable feel and interior style of the 928 most definitely blows away the TR, purely from a comfort standpoint. Just my two cents' worth....and remember, I am a diehard F-car owner. Just calling like I see it.....

 

Ive recently decided to search for a 928 s4 as a daily driver. Really looking forward to it


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The cars are fast and made even faster with stroker engines, turbos and superchargers. They are agile and they are attractive evidenced by the fact that todays 911 variants have morphed into the rough size and shape of the 928.

Here's a link of a super slow, non agile 928 tearing up a field full of Porsches.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftyeZc4Hlok[/ame]

 

Sound is horrible in this clip due to wind noise so adjust your volume down, but this particular 928 driven by Mark Kibort was completely street legal. He drove it to and from the track and never ever bought new tires. He gets them out of the dumpster. You can clearly see how his slow and non agile car is doing against the more agile and quicker competition.

It's an old clip, this car was wrecked on the track and he's now in another 928 that has a stroker 6.5L motor in it.

The Testarossa is a great and iconic car and I for one love its looks and feel. However if you do not know anything about 928's or haven't kept up with the privateer developments for the car let alone the capabilities of the later stock models like the S4, GT and GTS variants just keep quiet.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjbhDRkGkcw[/ame]

 

Great vid! That's Mark Anderson of 928 International ripping through the field @ Road America (I think) in a slightly modified, ill-handling 928...

CAR SPECIFICATIONS:
Power: 425 RWHP
Performance: TBD
Top speed: TBD
Weight: 2675 lbs
Transmission: GTS 5 spd with internal oil cooler
Clutch: Double Disc
Wheels: 11" X 18" Kinessis x 4
Brakes: 14" Front Brake Rotors with F50 Calipers
Shocks: MOTON triple adjustable
Exhaust: Dual 3" with "X" Cross-Over and Magnaflow Mufflers
Other Mods:
. . . Custom 42mm Front Sway Bar
. . . Custom 28mm Rear Sway Bar
. . . Custom Front and Rear Control Arms without rubber bushings
. . . Fuel Cell

Safety equip:
Racing Harness
Onboard Fire suppression system and hand extinguisher
Added systems:
928 International 6.4 Liter Stroker
Dry Sump Oil System
Remote Oil Cooler
Club Sport Alternator
External Transmission Cooler

He may have just a wee bit of track experience under his helmet.

He may or may not also own a modern 12 cylinder Ferrari.

 

Yeah Mark's got a lot of track experience and the Ferrari is gone. I think he's in an SL65 now for the DD. That video is also old, I think his track car has closer to 500rwhp.

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself! For anyone who has not actually driven a 928 5-speed (1987 S4 or later), you simply don't know what it is like. There is a reason why I clocked 70,000 miles in four years of daily driving it....while my 911 sat in the garage on a Battery Tender....staring at my TR lovingly...

 

What is it with guys that race 928's taking tires out of dumpsters, lol!

If Kibort and Anderson are beating late model 911 guys with their own discarded, burned up tires, than those 928's must really handle great or... the competition really isn't. (just a little rip on the Marks!)

 

What is insane about a 320bhp car in a 3600lb shell?

Thats hardly a fast car.

 

It has pull because Porsche managed to maintain a minimum of 300 lb-ft of torque from 2700 to 4750 rpm (peak of 316 lb-ft at 3000 rpm.) The Ferrari has a higher peak torque of 390 lb-ft at 4500 rpm, but the torque curve isn't as flat and broad. My '87 S4 weighed in right around 3400 lbs with a full tank.

 

I'm holding a Porsche sales brochure for a 1987 928 S4.

Curb weight 3,505
Maximum power SAE net 316 hp @ 6000 RPM
Maximum torque- SAE net 317 ft. lbs. @ 4000 RPM

Printed in West Germany. WVK 103 421


Joe