SCUD pricing guide

I've been eyeing that car...it doesn't have the US Carbon package, but otherwise is equiped "okay". I too think (as does F430GT's pricing model - which I think is dead on) that it should sell for $175k +/-. I honestly don't know if they would take that for it though...and, it is hard to buy the (asking price) $185k for that 08 with no carbon package when there is an 09 with carbon for $195k asking price in town too...one year newer and carbon package is, IMHO (and F430GTs) worth something like $20k over an 08 without carbon. So, if the $195k car could be bought for $185, this 08 should be $165k. I am pretty sure they wouldn't sell it for that! And...of course...here comes winter...we'll see where these go!

It sure would help me better understand pricing on these if we knew (for sure) how many Scuds were brought into the US in 08 and 09! (not 16M, just coupes). I say that because, it seems (time will tell) that CS depreciation may be slowing. There are fewer and fewer of them for sale with each passing month. Now at age 7 there are only a handful on the market with 5k +/- miles and asking prices around $147k average (that asking is only down 25% from sticker after 7 years! - and, yes I know higher mileage ones a few months ago sold for closer to $110-140k when there were many more on the market - but that is my point...). That is amazing considering the sticker on these ranged from $195k to $205k (stripe being the major difference). I think a major factor on recent CS pricing is the sub 300 (heck, some would say sub 200) number of CS's left in the US. Said another way ;-) Supply and demand matters!

 

Right on, people outside of CA, AZ, FL and a few other states forget the car biz comes to a very slow pace in the winter.

The market has cyclical factors that do make a big difference, we are on the edge right now of a faster depreciation curve going into winter and obviously a price hold or small spike in spring/summer from the winter lows.

 

Bought:

09 450 Miles. Red/ Stripe all the usual options. MSRP $303. Extended warranty via F through 05/13. $202.

Love it, brilliant in every way.

 

Many congrats. Pics please!

 

will post soon...promise.

 

Yeah asking price is not actual sell price true. I don't think some dealer put higher asking price ready for haggle and some just put lower asking price and have smaller room to haggle. You just can't expect take a 10%-20% off from all asking price. A lot of things also affected on wholesale price too other than future price drop, so I wouldn't bank on just a few wholesale price and think that should be the standard.


Do you think I can still get 10% off this asking price?
http://bentleylongisland.com/used-inventory/ZFFEW58A880159134

is got all the carbon including steering whell less engine bay inside. (is not a scud)

 

I don't know about 10%. Thats a pretty good price for an 08. Even with 11k. I bet someone enjoyed those miles. Car looks nice.

 

Yeah at 165k would be a great deal. It does seem like the prices are stabilizing. Which dealer is selling the 09 with the carbon package?

 

Note that it is a 'low option' 2008 - has a stripe & stereo/iPod/Bluetooth but basic fabric interior, zero extra carbon (not even doorsill covers), non-CPO/warranty at the $177k offer. Yes, per F430GTs model, this should be a <$170K car.

I think F430GTs model is quite accurate which means a few franchise dealers are moving their cars +/- $5K of the model. I think the margin of error is less for personal sales and indie retailer transactions.

 

I couldn't care less about the title of this thread, but the information is very valuable, in seeking out deals, determining negotiation strategy, etc.

If you are looking for a good deal, then I think research, patience, hard work, and a little compromise is to be expected. For me, I've been searching for the 'best value '08 with no stories and low miles'. Why an '08? Because threads such as this guide me in that direction given my budget. I've been on this forum and in the market since mid-summer.

I've found it! 2008 silverstone/black with stripe, 4500mi. Highly optioned - CF front, CF doorsills, stereo/iPod/Bluetooth, leather & mesh interior with red stitching (and I do prefer leather), wheel arches covered in leather, extinguisher. Clean carfax and autocheck, plus I have full service records. CF engine parts and tires already replaced under warranty.

And I'm buying it CPO with 1yr Power warranty for the bargain price

 

And I'm buying it CPO with 1yr Power warranty for the bargain price of $175K. This I think is a little lower than what F430GTs pricing model would suggest.

Regardless, in the end I think it's a good deal and within my budget.

Personally I'd like to thank CHIP, F430GT, HREU, and several others for their direct advice and guidance. this forum is valuable to me, and I'll likely be posting less on this thread, and more on threads pertaining to ownership experience, scuderia issues, etc!

Cheers to all!!!

DL

 

Don,

Congrats!!! Sometimes you have to filter the good with the bad, in the end its worth it!

Please post some pics of your beauty when she arrives!!

 

a 2008 with 15,000 miles should retail for $160k, and it should be in perfect conditions. $156k wholesale plus auction fees, transportation, etc puts this car's wholesale cost around the market price.

 

Don, that's a good deal. Great color too. Congratulations.

 

Fantastic sounding car, congrats! I would love to find a Silverstone Scud...but haven't seen one for sale in months...please post pics when you get it!

 

Pretty good guess as to which car this was, probably the Yellow one.

 

Because they don't have very much money invested. They can sit for a year if they want and lose nothing.

Dealers hold onto cars because they don't have a lot of money invested.

You keep telling everyone where the market should be but you never buy and you never do anything but speculate.

When a Dealer (most dealers) purchases a car they use a line of credit. EG

They buy a 165k car at auction or trade in with say 10% down I'll do your math $16,500 out of pocket. Possibly only 5% down. They have a line of credit that may cost them 8% which means it only costs them $12k a year roughly to own this car. It's not costing them $165k out of pocket. Possibly they have a line at 5% interest or less Who knows.

So Dealer A sits on this car for a year. They've barely touched capital out of the bank and they've lost 12k. If they mark the car up 30k they run the averages and realize it may take 18 months to sell it. If so they hold the value of the car up. Sell for their asking of 195k Spend $17,820 in interest (if run at 8% interest rate) Pay their salesmen 2k to peddle the car and they've Made $10 thousand dollars after holding this car 18 MONTHS. Their initial investment was $16,500 dollars. They've turned this $16,500 into $26,500 that's pretty good return on their dollar.

Multiply this example by 100 cars over the course of the year and the small dealership has made 1 million off of this model. Oh yes and this profit doubles if they only have to put down 5% for their purchases which is most likely the case.

Do you guys really think they are plopping down the Millions of dollars in cash to floor these cars? No way. Some do but most run it like a business.

This means that you speculators can offer all you want low but why the hell would they sell. They have a business plan. That works.

If you guys had a 300k house and someone offered you 15% off. Would you take it. Hell why wouldn't you correct? With your theories on these cars EVERYONE out there must be desperate to sell So why not dump your home for $45k less. Or $150k less if you are selling a million dollar home.

Supply and Demand does dictate market but the dealers are smarter than you believe.

I also believe you guys thinking that you should have anything to do with Wholesale pricing are out to lunch. You want wholesale pricing go out and grab a wholesale license. Buy the appropriate amount of cars to hold this license and then tell everyone on Fchat why you want to possibly mark up your investment more than the $5k you pipe dreamers are speculating.

These threads crack me up.

There are either Buyers or Tire Kickers. Which one are you? Most should spend more time behind the wheel of a car instead of behind your computer keyboard trying act like you might one day buy one of these things.

I've got news for you guys hoping these things will continue down. A) They will. It's a fricking car and who cares B) You will never ever buy one. Why? Because at no point in your life will you ever think that they aren't going to be worth another 15% less in 3 months. This conversation can continue for another 12 years until Scuds are priced below 100k and all the 308's and 355's are dead in junkyards or worth the 15k they will be worth. It's reality guys. These things depreciate. Who cares. It's a toy and should be had for fun.

well said
Tire kickers talk about drops in pricing.

Please see above. No dealer will drop 15% off of their asking. They aren't desperate.

CS pricing is different because CS owners are a different breed. There is 1/2 of the CS's for sale today as there was a year ago.

2 things happened. The buyer pool dried up and a number of guys gave up and didn't want to sell their cars for below "What they felt" was the market.

As discussed the market is what people will pay. Most of the CS's traded last year well below 140k and some below $120k with a few even cheaper. The average asking price now is in the 140k range. Will these sell? I think most of them will. These cars stabilized and many owners just gave up on selling for asking prices above market.

Scuds are different because 3 times as many made it to the states. Scud owners are not the CS junkie mentality. 40% of these cars were not purchased by enthuisists but guys 2-3 years ago that wanted the biggest best fastest Ferrari made. These are the cars turning although not many of them are now. Guys aren't willing to dump these cars anymore for a newer Ferrari because it's a little faster shifting and around a track. Lets face it guys only 1 in 1000 Ferrari owners can actually handle these cars above 8/10's and a lot of guys shouldn't even be behind the wheel of this powerful of a car. So the market has dwindled away a touch.

Ferrari themselves control this market as they should. They realized with the 458 that the old owners weren't buying. They built this car with the idea that Every Scud owner in the world would trade their car for a new 458 and every scud in the world would be for sale. This didn't happen. Ferrari had to switch gears and fast. They slowed production to way less than they were planning. They sent their dealers out after NEW clients. I'd love to know the percentage of 458 owners that have never ordered a new Ferrari before. I'd be willing to bet with all of the posts of these New Ferrari owners that well over 50% of 458 owners are brand new to Ferrari. This was never the way. You wanted a new Ferrari you better have purchased a few cars from your local Ferrari dealer. They had to change. The economic climate commanded them to. They had no choice.


The title of this thread should be Everything in the Country has Collapsing prices......We are in a depression (not recession) in my book and everything is cheaper now.

 

and that my friends is an excellent post....

another wild card is international buyers. If you follow the higher end market you will know that its common for cars to be sold to overseas buyers. Many of you know who Roy Cats is. Ask him how many Lambos he has sold to international buyers. Lots

 

true, lots of these exotics or high end cars like bentley are going to China. at a increasing rates too.

 

+1

Great description of the Supercar sales business.

 

Just a reminder that this is the 2011 version of this thread. Here's the 2010 version...

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304413

If you read it through, you'll note that prices have declined only slightly from the market picture for Fall 2010, the prognostications of "good examples for $150K by summer of 2011", didn't quite happen, and that some shoppers back then are still shopping today.

 

DING DING DING. We have a winner, thanks for taking the time to share your views. Great post. Always nice when someone uses fundamentals vs dream-a-MENTALS.

 

That statement is very true.....I could have swung the extra money for a slightly used 458 but coming from a Viper ACR I wanted another "race car".....the rawness of the Scud (and the fact it was less expensive) won me over....As with all my cars I'm already contemplating what I'll do next in a couple of years....for me it will have to be a Scud/Challenge version of the 458....for now I will enjoy racking up the miles and not worrying about depreciation....theses cars are begging to be driven!

 

Best post you've ever made...and you've had some good ones!
Well said

 

Congrats Don! I am sure you will enjoy it. You did better than me- my 180 offer was rebuffed...