98 F1 issue? Not sure yet?

Hello dear all:

Just got done with the project 98 355 F1. Took it out for a spin and looked for obvious F1 issues. SInce I got only 5K miles on the clock, thought I am in the clear. Guess again. I have done some thread search on the F1 issues and did not see something similar to my issue. Here's what I have and all help will be appreciated.

The car shifts fine into "R", "N", "1st" and "2nd" gears. When picking up speed to go into "3rd", the gearbox does not go into "3rd" and I hear the engine idle like it would when you hold the throttle open at redline. Then all of a a sudden it shifts into 4rt or 5th gears. Having the same issue trying to downshift from 6th, 5th or 4th. I have to let the car do the downshift as I decrease my speed. Downshift works from 2nd to 1st and finally into Neutrall.

I am sure that some of you have already gone this path and your input will be appreciated.
Is it a bad relay behind the driver seat? If so, what type have you guys used to replace it.
Could it be a gearbox fluid since mine is leaking a bit and need to diagnose the problem?

Thanks in davance
Steve

 

I doubt it is the relay....but that relay should be replaced regardless. Do a search for forum member "Juri" and send him a PM. He has a green one that fails open instead of the stock version that fails closed. That will save your F1 pump should the relay crap out.

This sounds more electrical / logic based than hydraulic. That leak shouldn't be an issue here, but does need to attended to.

If it were me I would pull the harness from the F1 ECU and clean and tighten up all the contacts & try again.

If that didn't do it I would look at the contacts on solenoids in the back and clean and tighten those.

If that didn't do it, the solenoids might be sticking....or? Time for a trip to someone with an SD computer and more expereince than either of us to take a peak.

 

Steve,

The only way to chase this gremlin is by using proper diagnostic tools (i.e., SD5 or the Leonardo system). There may be several reasons to malfunction you experience (the 3rd gear not engaging). If all other gears engage, except for the 3rd, then the most likely resons include:
1) one or two faulty solenoids responsible for redirecting the hydraulic pressure to propose EV lines (those hydraulic likes that go from hydraulic ppower distributor manifold to the hydraulic gear changing unit);
2) the hydraulic actuator or the gear shifter fork for 3rd and 4th gears may be misaligned and malfunctioning (Ferrari part 162761)

Changing/upgrading the F1 pump realy is always a good idea, but I doubt that it will resolve the problem with your 3rd gear.

 

Thank you all for your input, including Bruce from Georgia. I got the car on stands, strapped the rear end to a concrete wall, locked the rear hatch with a screwdriver and had my friend drive the car with the paddle shifters since I knew that the oil leak only happened when I was driving it.
First I cleaned the rear end with water and compressed air to get all prior oil residue out.
My friend ran the car on jack stands and shifted fine, including the 3rd gear. Guess the cleaning helped the sensors
The exhaust gas release pipe, its # 59,60 and 25 is squirting gear oil. I am sure its not suppose to do that. Anyone with in-dept knowledge about this air breather please chime in.
Thinking it may be the inner seals that the oil is getting through into the air reservoir, or whatever this part of the gearbox is. It is directly next to the axcell shafts.
Is is possible the oil level is too high?
I will take apart my spare tomorrow to see exactly how and what this air breather is and what it is suppose to do.
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Steve, I am not so sure that your problem is fully resolved.

Freewheeling on a lift does not properly reflect a load as one would see on the street.....the sensor would not be getting a proper signal as it monitors the clutch pulse(as I understand it).

You should have done this freewheeling run-up prior to doing anything(e.g. cleaning,etc.).


Have you taken the car for a spin around the block again after your freewheeling test?

The oil that is coming from the inspection plate may be nothing more than oil getting into the clutch housing from the puke-ing breather......these organic clutches don't like gear oil..lol

 

That's where I'd check first.

 

That is my weekend mission. I have asked around and no one seems to make sense of oil squirting from the air breather. One reason is that it may be overfilled. I know the prior owner did an oil service just before driving the car into a light or telephone poll. I will check the oil level from the driver side oil level rod/plug/allen head screw. In any case, I will need to open up the bell housing in the back just to make sure the seals in the back are OK and need to clean up any excess oil or dirt that may have gotten into the clutch and sensor areas.

Bruce, call me when its convenient for you.

Need to talk to you briefly.

Thanks
Steve

 

I had a similar problem with mine before, and i fixed the problem (well my engineer did) by changing all the hydraulic pipes. I think the reason was due to the hydraulic pipes getting old and causing something to leak.

If you need help, I will make a trip to my engineer and will ask him.

btw, have u guys tried to install the F360 pump into the F355 with the adapter kit? I am having problems with it... (please check my thread / posts)

 

Thanks ANCO

I don't think its the hydraulic lines. I have worked on this issue for a day or two and here's what I know so far. This is GOD forbid future reference.

1. Made sure the coolant is free of any air pockets.
2. The car shift fine into 3rd at slow speed but not at higher speed. This could be a symptom of the oil getting into the sensors. Once the sensors are cleaned, I think it will go away.
3. Make sure the gearbox is not overfilled. I think mine is and here's why. When I bought the car, the guys told me it does not pop into gear. All they had to do is replace two fuses. I think they kept on adding gear oil in an effort to put it in gear. I will check the oil level tomorrow and will post.

 

Here's what I have found out. The gearbox has 8-9 quarts of liquid instead of the 4 required quarts. Half of this liquid is a coolant. I know what you are thinking, the coolant leaked into the gearbox via the heat exchanger. The weird thing is that my coolant is the blue color one. The coolant in the gearbox is a sparkling green and was sitting on the bottom since the gear oil is oil and it would stay on top. My coolant level does not drop so that I would think the coolant exits the cooling system and enters the gearbox.
Here's what has been done.
1. Bought 4 gallons of a cheaper gear oil from pep-boys for flushing.
2. Opened the drain plug on the gearbox and emptied the crap out of it. Whatever it was
3. Closed the plug just enough to let the liquid out by dripping/sipping.
4. Started the car and started slowly filling the gearbox with the cheap gear oil from pep-boys.
5. Raised the rear end and went thru couple of gears a couple of times.
6. On and on went for about two hours by the time the 4 gallons of the flushing oil was gone.
7. Opened the drain again last night and drained everything out. Left the plug open overnight and got another quarter of a quart out as of the morning.
8. Closed everything up and filled with 2 qrts of redline, let it settle and then added the rest.
9. Started the car, warmed it up and took it out. Now, this is what I am talking about. Went thru all gears without an issue at any speed. Upshift and downshift were as crisp as they would be on a brand new car. Well, I only have 5k miles on it.

In the next couple of days, will pay attention to the coolant level. If the level is low and the gear oil level goes up, then the heat exchanger might be bad. I highly doubt it. I think someone messed it up to either total the car or filled the wrong liquid in the wrong place.

Cant assume too much. Will wait and see.

Thanks all for your support.

Steve

 

great job steve amazing how stupid things can get.

 

I'm having a big problem understanding this scenerio.

I think it is physically impossible to put 9qts into the gearbox thru the fill plug.....you would have to take the vent/purge valve on the top of the gearbox off and fill it there to get 9qts in....

If you wanted to get the insurance company's attention you would put coolant into the engine oiling system.

Secondly you do not purge the coolant out of the gearbox and heat exchanger using gear oil.

BTW, this glycol crap in the oil is a really bad nasty thing that can cause some major problems, especially if it was run for any length of time, and if you don't get it all out.

 

Sure I agree with you...but "stupid is what stupid does." I my lifetime I have seen some real winners that would be hard to duplicate even if trying. What if someone thought it was a good idea to fill the box via the breather? I can see an idiot doing it. It is right on top and the first thing you see.

I remember my first day in chem lab over 35 years ago. Guy can't figure out why his thermometer is not registering. He had it upsidedown.

 

I just have to wait and see Bruce. It is likely the exchanger is bad. But, figured I should at least drain the nasty looking thing from the box and wait and see. Its not a big issue replacing the heat exchanger. Seemed like I have access to heat by removing the middle cover on top of the coolant tank, then remove the coolant tank itself, then the throthle cable mechanism and I am there.

Will def. keep you posted.

 

I have a 99 with an F-1, here is a pic of the Diff. Could this be loose bolts or a bad gasket or seals. If the fluid gets low is there a dummy light on the dash or does shifting become difficult???
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I am not sure what that bolt does but there is one on each side of the box. The middle 10mm allen bolt is the drain bolt. If your gear oil gets low, lets say two quarts from the recommended 4 quarts, you will notice a clinch or a hard knock when you come to a stop. It will pop into neutral although you have not selected neutral manually. Then it will bump it into first or will just stay in neutral. ITs the cause of the low oil pressure. As we all know and as I found out from my research with others' help, its not too hard to check the fluid level on the left side of the gearbox right behind the axcel shaft. It takes a 12 mm allen socket and you should see the oil level indicator on it. Should be between min and max readings.