New Mondial delivered and already leaking fluids?!?!

I flew to Miami and purchased a 1989 Mondial T with 21,000 miles (my first Ferrari!). I had a Pre-purchase inspection and had the car shipped enclosed carrier to So. Cal, but after just 10 miles of driving enjoyment (2 days after lowered from truck), I have power steering fluid flowing like a river down my driveway? Fortunately, I was at home, not on the road, when this happened. Any ideas on what could be happening? Similar situations? Did the mechanic mess up on the PPI? This was a fully serviced, documented, and from all appearances, a very well cared for Mondial T. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

Sounds like the car was sitting for a long time before it went in for the PPI. If so, the Tech would likely be not at fault. Dry, aged, and/or hardened seals can let loose at any time once they've been put back into use. Where's the leak coming from?

 

Im just saying....
All kidding aside.
Enjoy your wonderful new car.
- Ron

 

Sounds like an unfortunate coincidence. There isn't much they could have done to hide something like that. Older car, it was going to happen eventually. Timing unfortunately bad for you. Would have been better if it had held off for 6 months so you'd have some real bonding time before this. Get it fixed quickly and get back to driving then you'll feel better.

 

As Wade asked, "Where is it coming from?"

Front, middle, or rear. There should be some dripping of oil in the area where it is leaking.

It could be a ruptured hose-either end or middle of the car, leaking hose fitting-either end of the car, pump seal-motor end, hydraulic steering seal-front of car.

None of these are major serious, more of a nuisance issue.

Add fluid and start the motor. If it leaks near the motor it is probably a pump seal.

Turn the steering wheel with the motor running, if it leaks at the front it is probably a steering unit seal.

Again it could be a rupture hose anywhere or a hose fitting at the pump or steering unit. You should be able to see where it is leaking if it is that serious.

It could be a DIY depending on your mechanical ability. If not, it can be diagnosed on a car lift pretty quickly. Then you can decide what to do.

Power steering seal sealer additive is not recommended and probably won't work.

If you can drive it to a shop you may want to add power steering fluid, before you drive it there. Driving it a "short" distance without any fluid is not recommended.

Again, bummer, but a deal breaker. You will enjoy the car and for everything you repair you will gain a better understanding of the car and feel more confident driving it. That is a very good thing.

Good Luck
Deep River Garage

 

PM sent

 

One of my other cars started leaking power steering fluid but it was drops at a time on the garage floor and I used LUCUS power steering stop leak and that controlled it for a while. But it ended up needing a new power steering rack to get a permanent fix. Your Mondial sounds like its beyond stop leak help, it will just pour right out but slower.
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Thanks for all the comments. The leak does appear to be pink/rose in color and coming from the power steering area--it lost like a quart or more on my driveway. I am having a Ferrari mobile technician come to the house to look it over on Monday. I will know more then, but the car had only been sitting 3 or 4 weeks, prior to that was driven weekly (per FChat owner/seller). There is one other area of leakeage from the very back of the car, just drips (small puddle/silver dollar) and the tech who did the PPI, also did a full fluid service/change on the car prior to shipping, and he says that he lubed and oiled that part and it is just breaking down the extra lubrication when it heated up.

I am sorry I don't know the mechanically terminology for the part, but it sounds like I am about to become more educated. The second leaking part is a circular/drum shaped part just inside exhaust and it has a little grate looking thing with 4 screws on the bottom--it is leaking a little, and per mechanic is just off fresh fluid/lube/oil and not to worry. He has not said to not worry about power steering fluid leak, but cannot diagnose from 2500 miles away. Sorry about my complete lack of mechanical understanding in describing the issues! It does look beautiful in my garage, even if not operational, and I had fun the whole 10 miles I put on her!!!

 

Frankly, it did seem to me like the PPI was not done properly to have a problem within 10 miles of driving the car, from the time it was inspected, but it sounds like he might not be at fault--still frustrating!

Additionally, and possibly, ill-advised I used the mechanic who had been caring for the Mondial for the previous owner. He had a solid reputation, knew the car inside and out, did compression, inspected, and had been servicing the car. Again, it might be bad timing, but I wonder about my decision not to take it to another shop to do an inspection? Oh well, a little late now.

 

In the big picture, these are minor inconveniences. Hopefully the fix will be quick so you can go back to driving it. If these leaks had been ongoing the entire underside of your car would be a dirty oily mess.

I know it's very disappointing and frustrating, but you might expect the same thing if you'd purchased a barely used 1989 Chevy. Once these things are cleaned up you should have a car that will be more reliable for you.

 

That circular drum thing just inside the exhaust is your Transmission, lovingly referred to by the Brotherhood as the pumpkin.

 

If you want to learn a lot about your car you can go to the 348 section and look for heavy repair threads. Same engine transmission setup so the taking apart and putting together is the same. You'll see lots of good pictures and descriptions in there. You will learn a lot.

 

The mobile Ferrari tech came to house and there are several issues with the car. He said it could not be driven, and with the amount of fluid lost, I was lucky it hadn't happened while driving it, or the damage could have been much more expensive to repair. He recommended that I request a special tow truck driver, with Ferrari experience, from AAA. They sent out a driver with a prancing horse tattoo on his calf, and he handled the car very well. Just a few days after having it delivered from Miami by enclosed transport, I watched it leave my home on a Auto Club flatbed.

The car needs a new power steering rack (tech is going to send out for rebuild to save $) and the clutch release or throw out bearing (hence the leak from rear of car) is bad. And, to top it off, the tires are cracking and disintegrating, and the DOT date has expired (also missed in PPI???) and all 4 need to be replaced. I can clearly see the tires are bad, now that he pointed it out, but I should have checked personally, however I trusted the PPI.

I feel like an idiot and somehow found the worst PPI on the planet, but I am going to get the car fixed up and back on the road. The FChat member who sold me the car claims none of these leaks were there a week ago either, but I am not sure what to think--either way I own the car and it was sold without warranty, plus it was my responsibility to get a good PPI, which I failed to do. The mechanic in Doral, Florida, who did PPI is refunding the $500.00 paid for the PPI, but he still claims that none of these leaks existed when he inspected the car 10 miles ago? Strangely enough, since my email to the shop owner last Friday, asking about fluids leaking from the bottom of my car, the shop owner has not returned my emails or a single phone call. The only reason I know the shop owner is claiming to have done a good PPI, is that the seller passed that message along to me? My local Ferrari tech said that the leak areas had residue indicating a longer period of leaking than just a few days, or weeks, and it appears to demonstrate a progression of leaking that could not have been missed by any real mechanic.

At this point, I got my money back on the PPI, and I look forward to getting the car back on the road, as I have only driven it twice for less than 10 miles. A few important lessons: NEVER USE SELLER'S MECHANIC TO DO A PPI!!! The guy seemed great, clean shop, lots of nice cars, seemed to know his stuff, and the car was already in his shop! He definitely knew the car, but I should have taken the car to an unbiased 3rd party--hard lesson! Also, when it comes to a Ferrari, spend the time find a good mechanic to do a thorough PPI!

Although, mechanically under the weather, cosmetically the car is beautiful (leather, paint, wheels, gauges, top, etc.). It is cosmetically the nicest I had seen, hence the trip to Miami and purchase. As it worked out, she beguiled me with her beauty, and only showed me her faults after I was fully committed and invested in our relationship--what's new! I will forgive her, when she comes back home. Wish me luck!

 

I had a simular issue when I bought my T but I got 1000 miles before it sh*t the bed. The throw out bearing is weak so make sure you upgrade it. I don't have a part number but I did go with the upgrade from Ferrari while the gearbox was being replaced after it exploded (not really but they had design flaws with the syncros that go bad and eat your gears common issue). You can get clouded when you are about to buy your first and it will cost you. Many things go bad on the Mondial and it can really be frustrating spend the money make it right and don't worry about ever getting your money out of it. I sold my car this year and bought a 360 but this time I had it gone through with a fine tooth comb. So far 4000 miles no problems other than convertible top issue that I was able to fix myself for $20. Good luck and enjoy

 

F1wannabe - indeed it sucks to have your new Ferrari suddenly need service. Unfortunately, it happens even with a detailed PPI sometimes.

For the steering rack, I recommend a rebuild from Atlantic Enterprises: http://atlantic-ent.com/ Send the rack to them, and let them do the rebuild. They have plenty of Ferrari experience.

For the clutch release bearing and flange, we have both in stock. Dealers might publicly "poo poo" the Hill Engineering parts for the sake of P.R., but it's funny just how many of their parts departments and technicians buy the Hill Engineering parts from us on a regular basis.

If you ring me at Ricambi, we can get you free overnight shipping on the flange and bearing to Wynn (or wherever your car is currently sitting).

 

Chin up. I know it sucks but in the spring you'll forget all about it (until the next issue). And remember, even with a known car and great history things still go wrong. I've got one of the best documented cars here and three days after it got home it dropped a bank of cylinders and needed some tlc. Glad you got the 500 back.

It'll be worth the aggravation soon. Trust me.

 

You needed to remind me!!!! I'm glad it turned out to be a minor thing, but those were a long few days waiting for shop to check her out. Still enjoying her I hope? I miss her dearly

Take good care of her!!!!!


To the OP, don't sweat it too much. S&it happens. They are old Italian relatively handmade limited production exotic cars. Even if the car didn't have these problems now, there is no saying that they wouldn't have reared their ugly head at some point down the road. The way I look at it, you can cross these repairs off your eventual to do list and begin enjoying your car upon her return. FWIW, Its cheaper to fix these mechanical things than it ever would be to make a car as cosmetically exceptional as you describe.

Good luck and I wish you many happy years with the Mondial... They are just fantastic cars!

BTW, listen to Daniel at Ricambi...Hill engineering makes top flight stuff.

 

I have tried to explain this to the buyer. Yes, so true, and I am sorry for Buyer. I sold the mondial t to him and I can state that there were no leaks with the car before it left from Miami.

Buyer was given the opportunity to have the car looked at by anyone of his choosing. My mechanic went through the car with Buyer while it was on a lift and with a flashlight. He had free range to spend as much time as he wanted driving and checking the car out.

My mechanic did not want to even charge Buyer for the ppi, but Buyer was insistent on a compression test. If the car was as messy and leaky as Buyer describes it to have been when he received it, if it was in this condition in Florida when the flashlight examination under the car was done, surely it would have been evident!

Buyer is a thorough guy. He spent two days looking at the car. He drove the car. He took photographs of the car while it was at the mechanic's. He spent hours with the car with it on a lift. There was no leak on the mechanic's floor, nor anything evident during the hours Buyer had to look under it.

Now I know Buyer does not have mechanical expertise, and nor do I, but I can see a leak under a car and there was none here in Miami. The car was driven regularly and had had its last major service a little more than 2 years ago by Ferrari. My car was maintained regularly and if there was anything requiring repair it was handled. Buyer was given complete service records from the first day the car went on the road. I would strongly doubt that there are as many pristine and well cared for cars as this mondial t was.

The car was also at my mechanic's shop for about 2 weeks (waiting for Buyer who's plan had to be delayed) and were there any leaks they would have been noticed and I surely would have been told.

It was probably 4 weeks from the time that Buyer and I consummated our deal until he received the car in L.A. What might have happened in that interim period I hardly know. From speaking with Buyer, I also do not think there were any leakage of fluids in his garage before he'd driven it.

In any event, without my mechanic acknowledging any fault I have asked to him to simply refund Buyer's PPI fee. It is not worth his aggravation nor mine to continue to deal with this. I understand Buyer's frustration, and I am truly sorry for these unfortunate changes, but the car - in Miami - did not have these issues.

Was it coincidence? Was it the weather change? Was it something the transport company did? Was it a new eager mechanic in L.A. looking for buyer's business? I don't know, but I can state that the car had no issues in Miami. (Yes, the tires were older - I believe date code of 2004 - but I was not aware that they were on the verge of failure. Yes, I'd say that based on the date code that they would have been due for a change.) I hesitate to post this, and continue this thread, but I am an honest seller and feel it necessary to defend the mechanic, who I feel bent over backward to accommodate buyer's needs and insecurities about the car.

As I had told Buyer when he had vacillated about whether to buy this car, perhaps this is not the right car for him to become involved with. I think Buyer is a nice guy, and I wish him much enjoyment with the car, but the PPI was honest based on what was known and seen at the time before the car left Miami.

 

The new mechanic will tell all once on the hoist and the pumpkin removed, old leaks gather dirt new leaks are clean, the steering rack seals can go at any time. At least the repairs are not overly expensive,racks are easy to rebuild and clutch related seals not expensive.

 

Of course, I never stated who the seller was, nor have I mentioned the mechanics name in the process (still won't), but the seller has now volunteered his identity. I started this post to see if anybody knew what was wrong with my car, as the mechanic could not get to my house until the following Monday, not to complain about the seller. As stated earlier, I had an opportunity to do a 3rd party independent inspection and I opted to use his mechanic, which I regret, whether or not, the mechanic was negligent in his inspection--it is just good business to have it checked out by a third party.

Whether, or not, the previous owner, or the mechanic, were aware of these issues, I will never know, but I bought an old car, in an "as is" sale with no warranties, and I take full responsibility for not inspecting the car better--I am a grown up! The seller has always been very friendly and answered my calls and questions throughout the process. When the #@&%* hit the fan, he seemed just as surprised by the mechanical failure as I was at the time. Frankly, I was apprehensive about buying a car so far from home, and a negative PPI report would have probably killed the sale in Miami. In fact, the mechanic gushed over the car, and appeared to love the car, which is part of the reason I felt so comfortable with his PPI and the car. Interestingly, the previous owner had no major mechanical work done on the car, just small issues and oil changes, and in his ownership of less than two years, really had very little issues. Of course, if the PPI was sound, and all this was coincidental, he was 10 miles away from some major mechanical issues, and my timing was just 10 miles too early--possible. It is possible that the car was just ready for a mechanical meltdown--it is not like these cars are not prone to mechanical meltdowns.

It is possible that the tires were a complete oversight, the three leaks from the steering rack, and the throw bearing, all occurred in my 10 miles of driving in So. Cal., and that was just very bad luck and timing. Ironically, the local mechanic noticed the tires, prior to even looking at the leaks. I have a brand new Bend Pak lift in my garage, so the car was up on the lift for the mechanics arrival Monday, and the tires were the first thing he noticed--he doesn't sell tires. I am sure it is all possible, just a big misunderstanding, but the local mechanic, strongly disagrees with that possibility and was willing to personally speak with the PPI mechanic, from my home, but he wouldn't take my calls. I will never know the truth, and now only rehash the story in response to the seller's recent post.

My frustration with the mechanic is that I called him on the day I received the car with a fluid leak question and he claimed the leak must be a lube/oil break down from the fluid change he did for me on the 14th, and not to worry. When I discovered more leaks and fluids over the next two days (had not driven it again), I sent an email, and called, and never heard from him again. Honestly, I wasn't going to accuse him of any wrong doing, I just wanted to know what was going on? Could I drive the car? Should I rush to a shop (BTW--at that point, I didn't even have a shop)? But, he never called back. I then contacted the owner to see if he could get a hold of the mechanic, and at this point, frankly, I was just confused by all the fluids and thought maybe a hose had come loose or some other easy fix could be identified by the mechanic.

When the previous owner contacted the mechanic, he admitted to avoiding my calls and emails, as he felt the car was not his problem and he had spent enough time on it. He might have felt like he was no longer obligated to take any more time with me. I had paid him for a PPI and fluid change and, based on the fluids coming out of the car, I feel my contact was fully warranted. BTW, I could have spent 7 hours looking at the bottom of the car with a flashlight and still not known what to look for on that car. My flashlight inspection, his idea, lasted all of 15 secs. In the end, the former owner brokered a deal where the mechanic refunded the PPI, but not the fluid change, and I agreed to move on. The former seller is very loyal to the mechanic and wanted to see the situation get resolved, but I was not going to let it go without some refund.

On a side note, I didn't need some "eager" Ferrari mechanic to come claim things were wrong with the car to get my business, I had two quarts of power steering fluid running down my driveway, and a puddle under the clutch throw bearing, the size of a small pizza, which clearly confirmed that I had a problem and needed a mechanic.

I hope some future buyer will gain some insights and lessons from my experiences. Maybe my posts help some first time buyer or F Chatter avoid similar issues. Thanks for all the "chin up" and "it will all work" out posts. I am excited to get the car fixed and back home!

 

BTW, thanks for the advice, and I did notice you have a new Testarossa avatar--I hope you are enjoying the car. Have you posted pics yet?

 

I heard from the mechanic and here is the final diagnosis on cause of leaks: power steering rack is shot and the boots are filled with fluid (currently being rebuilt), the throw out bearings are in great shape, but the seals are leaking and the other leak is from the input shaft seals (both leaks are coming from clutch housing). The re-build, labor, parts, smog (needed for California registration), and 4 new Bridgestone tires (separate shop), approx. $2,800.00.

 

Although it may not seem like it right now, that's great news...
$2,800.00 and you get to cross all of those things off your list!
Sounds good to me!

With these cars its never a question of "if" its just a question of "when." Trust me, after 50 miles of driving, you will have long forgotten the $2800.00

As for me, I am loving the testarossa. Here's a couple of photos I posted elsewhere:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141034145&postcount=10

 

I promise you I'm not trying to be a tool here but $2800 sounds pretty cheap. For a Ferrari. These cars are NOT engineered like toyotas or anything else you would consider reliable. See my sorting thread in the 550 section for how many things are able to be found despite a PPI. Often the cars have to be "gotten in to" to a degree that PPI's will not cover to really sort them. I now believe that PPI's are of limited value, and there is no substitute for putting your eyes on the vehicle yourself. Even if you have to pay a shop $250 to put the car on a lift for you so you can really get a good look at everything. It sounds like you did that but sometimes it still happens.

Also, don't forget this is a late 80's automobile. I had enough trouble with my 1998 and 2001 models!

If you are not mechanically inclined find a friend that is...it pays great dividends in figuring out which car may be the best choice for you. I wish you the best in getting her back on the road and indeed having some "bonding" time.

 

And Joe, I'm jealous. Beautiful TR you have there. The Testarossa was the car I drooled over in childhood. I came very close to a 512TR. Close but no cigar.

Enjoy her!