Need help to rewire antenna for 308/328

Sorry Steve, yep it's a USA 328.

Turns out nobody makes a semi-automatic antenna any more (just checked with the supplier).

Guess I'll be digging in my dash and running some new wire.

I did a bit of exploring yesterday, and removed the black metal plate under the antenna mounting location, and found the Bosch ECU. Is this where I'll find the hot lead, on the passenger-side trunk compartment? So, pin 30 is a direct unfused +12V source? Tap into that wire and add an inline fuse? Any recommended amp rating?

Thanks as always,
Greg

 

Yes
Yes
Yes
I would guess that a 5A fuse would be plenty, but 10A would be OK too (if you use an ATC fuse socket, you can always change the rating of the fuse you insert).

The larger bright silver relay with the red fuse/fuseholder at the top of this photo is the protection relay -- pin 30 should have a large P (beige) wire attached:
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Steve,
As usual, your level of assistance is unparalleled on F-Chat. Thanks so much. You too, Alan!

I'll get back here after I give all this a shot..

Greg

PS--Steve, where are you in Texas? Weren't you formerly in Colorado?

 

Yes, we moved about 4 years ago (as the wife wanted to get out of the cold winter). But, in a strange way, we didn't move at all because we went from one isolated center of nutball faux-green liberals (Boulder) to the other isolated center of nutball faux-green liberals (Austin/Round Rock)

 

Have you looked at post #7 on page 1?

Your options for an automatic antenna are:

1) Run red (radio memory) and blue (radio on) wires from the radio to the antenna so the antenna operates automatically -- and the antenna switch does nothing

or

2) Use three Radio Shack diodes as in the lower right figure in post 7 attachment.
"B+" would be the red wire, "+ radio" would be the blue wire, and the red/white wires are from the console switch.

When you push the switch to put + voltage on the "up" wire, the diodes feed voltage to both the red and blue wires, causing the antenna to raise.
When you push the switch to put + voltage on teh "down" wire, the diodes feed voltage to only the red wire, so the antenna retracts.
When the switch is at rest, there's no voltage to either wire, and the antenna has no motion power at all, so it doesn't move.

By making the red wire switched by the antenna switch, you can leave the antenna in a mid position, because you remove both extend and retract power from it, so it stops where it is.

(Your stock antenna is the lower left figure,. as previously described.)

The hard part may be running the antenna (coax) signal wire up to the radio.

 

I was (probably wrongly) thinking that the antenna had a preamp that needed +12V power to be present -- can't improve on DGS's simple 3 diode solution using the stock 328 wiring and switch if motor motion is all that's needed (and then no power applied).

 

Steve,
My antenna indeed does need a constant +12V as well as a radio switched +12V, 2 wires attached.

I plan on finishing this job today, after the Texans/Ravens game! I found the hot 12V wire on the Jetronic plate relay, pin 30. Thanks for that tip. I'll tap into that and run it to the red antenna wire. I also found the blue radio antenna wire. My plan is to connect to that and run a new wire to one of the 2 antenna switch wires in the console. This saves me having to run a new wire all the way to the back (thanks for the tip, Alan!) Of course this will render my antenna switch inoperable. I did notice that if I switch from radio to CD on the Alpine, the voltage on the blue wire goes away, which is nice.

Anybody have tips on how to remove a 328 center console? I see the obvious tiny hold-down phillips screws, but any other hidden fasteners I should know about, like under the cassette holders in the storage bin? (I need to remove those anyway!)

Greg

 

I don't remember too many hidden fasteners, although there are 1 or 2. Easy to find. You do need to remve all the swiches and electronics from above. There is a thin wall 13mm long socket needed for one of the switches. Then, after all the fasteners removed, the console comes out in 3 pieces.

Hints: label the wires carefully, and make very good notes of how the wires are dressed and laid out under the console. You have to put it back exactly the same way or the top piece will bulge (for a couple of months, anyway).

 

Great tips, thanks Yelcab.

 

and a fuse please!

 

already done, 10amp

Having a bear of a time lifting the 328 console panel, however. The leading edge comes up fine, but the rear, where the antenna switch is, is staying put.
About to search for a help thread..
Greg

 

Figured it out--needed to push out the rear console switches from beneath, remove the lower connectors, (the 4 are color-coded) then remove the two final small hold-down screws, then you can lift the entire console top off.

Connected the blue radio wire to one of the white/red switch wires, then tested for current at the wires in back. All is good. Only have +12V when radio is on.

Will finish this next week, and report back. Seems I can't beat nightfall to finish this project!


Greg

 

The model number you listed does not show having an internal amplifier.

It's designed for a constant 12v plus a radio signal, in order to assure that the antenna retracts when the car is off.
(Some locales --- such as Atlantic City -- started requiring antennas to be either self retracting or solid, after people started ripping antenna masts off parked cars to make .22 cal "zip" guns.)

But that model only appears to use the power to move the antenna, not for the signal.

So you could wire it up as designed, without the console switch, and the antenna would extend only when the radio was on.

Or you could use the three diode solution to move the antenna only from the console switch as the factory antenna worked.

There's not too much point mucking about in between. Either let the radio raise the antenna on demand, or operate it manually off the console.

 

An amplified model would power the amplifier off the "extend" (blue) radio wire, rather than run the amplifier all the time.

The "constant" power is only to retract the antenna.

On my 328, the console top is fastened down with a screw under the rocker switches and one under the ashtray.

 

OK, got the Metra fully-automatic antenna in. Was a pretty frustrating job, removing the console cover, front tunnel cover, and running a jumper blue wire from radio to one wire of the switch (to jump over to the rear compartment).

The antenna works when radio is turned on, but it seems it will only stay up if I depress the antenna switch to the "up" position. When I release the switch, the antenna lowers. This wasn't obvious during install because I was feeding +12V to the antenna's blue wire from the nearby constant hot lead to test.

So, obviously, the circuit needs to be closed for the blue wire to feed a constant +12V to the antenna. Anybody have any advice for the best way to go about this, without having to tear deep into the car again? The other antenna wire is dangling free (taped over) right next to the antenna. If I jumped that to the blue wire connection, wouldn't that fix my issue? Meaning, no matter if the switch is depressed or not, the blue wire would be constant hot?

Or, do I need to get into the console at the switch again and connect the two striped wires at the switch location????

Thanks!
Greg

 

you are wired to the wrong side of the antenna switch. You need to take the console back apart and connect to the output of the switch... I install the metra fully auto antenna all the time in the 308's and 328's using the stock semi auto switch.... If you follow the wiring diagram and make sure you leave the relay that is part of the antenna in place it will work perfectly....I have also found a replacement mast for the stock bosch autojet II antenna.
Good Luck!

Scott
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Figures. I just chose one of the two switch wires, hoping to get the right one. So, I need to tap the "other" white/red striped wire, correct?

These wires are the "outer" two on the connector, right? If memory serves, there are 2 more wires inside of those, but those aren't germane to this discussion, I guess.

Thanks,
Greg

 

If you're using the radio to operate the antenna automatically, you don't need the console switch at all.

If you're using the switch wiring from the console to the antenna, then unplug the red/white wires to the antenna from the console switch, and plug your "blue" wire from the radio in there.

The switch reverses the polarity on the two antenna wires.
In "up" it runs plus and minus. In "down" it runs minus and plus.
With the switch not pushed, it doesn't feed power to either wire.
This is intended to run directly to the antenna motor. On way runs the motor "up", the other way runs the motor in the opposite direction, and the neutral switch setting doesn't run the motor at all.

For the automatic antenna, you run a constant +12 to the antenna power, and the radio antenna power ("blue wire") to the radio feed.
When the radio feed is on, it automatically raises the antenna until it's fully up, then stops. When the radio feed is off, it uses the constant power to lower the antenna until it's fully down.
No manual switch required.

 

refer to post number 13 of this thread.

 

From post 14 in the thread:

Okay, that's what the three diode diagram in post #7 does.
You don't need a +12 source or the "blue wire" from the radio.
The console switch provides +12 (and ground) only when pressed.
You use the console switch as factory wired, and put the three diodes between the two red/white wires and the antenna's +12 and +radio connections as shown.
Then the console switch provides the +12 power, and you use the ground at the antenna.

The console switch puts + on one wire and - on the other, only when the switch is pressed.
When pressed the other way, it reverses the connections, - and +.

Your antenna will extend the antenna when you have +12 on both the +power and +radio leads, and will retract the antenna when there is voltage on only the +power leads.
Both voltage leads are relative to the antenna ground (- voltage).


Using diodes, one wire becomes +up and the other is +down, and you don't ground through the switch. The - is connected at the antenna ground.

Then you use the third diode so the +up feeds both +power and +radio on the antenna, causing it to raise.
The +down wire feeds only the +power connection on the antenna, causing it to retract.
With the switch not pressed, there's no voltage on either connection, and the antenna doesn't move at all.

On diodes, there's typically a stripe on the anode (the load side).
(The side with the line that the triangle points towards on the wiring diagram.)
These should work fine (no affiliation): http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062577

 

OK guys--now that I've got the car back together, but I've tapped the wrong switch wire, the game has changed.

I don't want to have to pull the console top if I can avoid it. I've found that I can lift the antenna switch out of the console pretty easily, gaining access the the white connector and 4 wires. Not much slack to work with, however. Does it make sense to try and pull the two outer switch wires (the ones that run to the antenna--the middle ones I believe are +12V switched and ground), and reverse their switch position? Wouldn't this work? I'm not sure I can remove the wire tap and tap the other wire with the limited clearance and slack, but I can maybe just pull them out of the connector and switch their positions.

I no longer intend to use the antenna switch for anything but decoration.

?

Greg

 

Pulling the console top isn't all that difficult. It's just a screw under the rocker switches and a screw under the ash tray, and it lifts right off.

To operate the antenna automatically, you have to bypass the switch completely.

If you've run your radio's antenna wire to the console, then you can pull the connector off the antenna switch and plug your connecting wires into that with the appropriate mating connector. (Possibly a quarter-inch Amp blade connector. I haven't looked at the connector, lately.)
If you connect your radio's antenna lead to either of the red/white wires that run to the back, you can then feed that to the antenna's radio power (blue) lead.

If you already have switched power run to the antenna at the back, then adding the radio lead is all you'd need.

You could also jumper the gray wire in the connector to the other white wire to send fuse 4 unswitched power to the back, but you'd have to be sure the antenna didn't draw power when it was fully up or down, as F4 is on all the time.

The only down-side would be that, with the connector removed, the unused rocker switch won't light up with the instrument lights.

The other option would be to remove one of the red/white wires from the connector shell, and plug your radio wire into the red/white wire without going through the switch connector.

You're just using one of the red/white wires to carry your radio lead to the back.

 

DGS--I appreciate all the posts you've written here, thank u. My console top is a bit hard to remove, found this out last week. It's 2 screws under the rearmost switches, and the 2 ashtray screws. Those are easy, but the two rearward screws are HARD to get out, without loosening the console itself and sliding my hand underneath to guide the screws and prevent them from falling. Plus, if they fall, I need to be able to lift the console to get them out. So, hoping to be able to do this without pulling the console top. I will if I have to, however.

To be clear, I do have a constant hot +12V going to the antenna (from the Jetronic relay pin 30). I ran a wire from the Alpine head unit blue wire to one of the antenna switch wires, tapped into it. So, the blue wire to the antenna does indeed receive 12V, but only if I depress the switch.

So, you are saying I need to bypass the switch entirely? I do want the switch to appear stock, in place and lit at night. So, do I just need to pull the connector and join the 2 white/red wires (one of them is tapped from the radio), leaving the middle 2 + and - wires attached to provide lighting? The question in my mind is, where are the 2 wires appearing at the antenna coming from? It seems obvious they are the two outer wires at the switch, correct? If I join these 2 wires at the switch, then do BOTH of the antenna wires at the radio need to be joined into the antenna blue wire as well?

Removing the wire from ONE antenna switch wire and moving it to the other will NOT fix the problem, is that what you are saying? They need to be connected, bypassing the switch entirely? If I connect the radio blue wire to BOTH switch wires, will that blow a fuse?

Greg

 

The two wires running to the antenna are marked "BR" on the wiring diagram.
BR, for "Bianco-Rosa", or white with a red stripe. They connect to pins 1 and 5 of the rocker switch.

The black wire going to that switch is ground. The gray wire is constant +12 from fuse 4. The white-blue wire is your console lighting power.

Under the stock wiring, the switch will put +12 and ground on those wires, depending on which way you press the switch.

If you have the white-red wire connected to your "radio" lead of your automatic antenna, then pressing the switch to put +12v on the wire will cause the antenna to raise, regardless of your radio wire.

If you're using the white-red wire to run your radio signal to the back, you'll need to disconnect the wire from the switch. Otherwise you can damage your radio by pushing voltage or ground onto that lead independent of the radio output.

You'll want to connect your radio wire to the white-red wire, without the wire going through the switch.

Then connect that wire at the antenna.
What you may want to do is unplug the red-white wire from the switch and first connect it to ground, so you can, with a meter, find which of the red-white wires at the back you've disconnected.
Then unplug the wire from ground and connect it to your radio, and plug the other end into your antenna.

I don't think you'll be able to get the wire out of the connector shell without taking the top off the console.

Another option would be to intercept the white-red wires at pins 6 and 7 of one of the connectors at the front of the console.
(Wiring diagram connector 130 -- "Connector from dashboard to central tunnel (in front end of tunnel)."

Or you could just cut the wire, leaving enough wire at the switch so it could be spliced together to restore the factory wiring.

 

Thanks DGS,

I appreciate the tips as always. It seems counter-intuitive however to think that by simply pulling my tapped wire out of the switch connector, my problem will be solved. Shouldn't that wire already be getting +12V when I turn on the radio, and sending it back to the antenna? Obviously it's not, without the switch pushed to the "up" position, so, I'm fairly certain that I've tapped the wrong white/red wire at the switch.

I think, and you tell me if you agree, that I need to tap the OTHER white/red switch wire as well as remove it from the connector.

OR.......does it matter which wire is tapped from the radio, as long as it's removed from the switch connector?!

LOL!

Been short on time this month with work projects, and trying to do this in my head before I dig back into the car!

Greg