An awesome restoration project for a serious enthusiest. From the pics, that doesn't look like a 102k interior. Could be wrong, Maybe the OP knows for sure
Despite all the possible evidence to the contrary, I am inclined to believe the 1966 mileage until I can lay eyes on it. The original owner had over 20 cars in his collection, including a really nice Rolls-Royce, that sat collecting dust. He didn't cover them when I saw them in his garage almost twenty years ago. Unfortunately, he died last year and the car dealer picked up all of his vehicles to sell for the estate. I'm going to go look at it since it is a short drive and I knew the family ages ago. But I also have to be in Atlanta for 7 days next week, and there are a few cars there I would like to see also.
Haven't bought it. I'm also looking at two while I am in Atlanta next week. But I did spend four hours inside and outside the car looking it over with the knowledge I have been gaining from this site and taking photos. Thanks in advance guys! Some history of the car and how it wound up at the dealer. It belonged to a wealthy philanthropist (made his money in pharmaceuticals) named Jennings Osbourne in Little Rock. He is most well known for his huge christmas light displays (3 million lights at one point) which got donated to Dinsey World (those lights at Orlando belonged to Jennings). He collected vehicles like some of us collect toys. The dealer had many low mile vehicles there that belonged to Jennings including: A 1990's Harley-Davidson Ultraglide with 180 miles, a 1970's Triumph Bonneville Silver Jubilee which look like it just came out of the box with 848 miles on it, a Delorean with a 18,000 miles on it, a 1980 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith II with 8,000 miles, 65 Ford T-bird with 45,000 miles, 1958 Corvette with 20-something (don't remember the exact amount), 1996 Jaguar XJS with 18,000, and several Porsches that had really low mileage. He bought cars to hold onto them. Jennings died in July of last year. Allied Bank was taking care of some of the estate. The wife, Mitzy, and his daughter Breezy didn't want the majority of the cars, so the bank bought them. In all, 25 cars went to Evans (who specializes in Mercedes, Porsches, and Jaguars). Flat bed trailers delivered them to his shop late last week. He hasn't even had a chance to wash most of the ones I saw The fact that most of the cars were really low mileage lends credence to the fact that the 308 may be also. There was also other evidence on the car that lends credence. Mainly, the dirt. They had not washed the 308 yet. It was still in the service area and was next in line for a detail. The dust on the exterior of the car was so thick in places that when I ran my finger through it, my finger turned black. There was a mud dauber nest in the rim of the front passenger wheel, and the dirt on the engine appears to be simply dust as it wiped right off. I don't think this car was ever covered. A cat paw print on the front bumper in the dirt supports that theory as well as the general dust and dirt. The spare tire was either manufactured in 1984 or 1994 according to the date code (pre-2000 they only used 1 digit for the year), while the tires on the car were manufactured in 2006 (some in July others in November). The paint on this car was nearly flawless. The only spot I could find on the Rossa Corsa that was anything but dirty, was on the rear passenger side above the turn signal. There is a small scratch the width of a fine point pen and the length of my pinky nail. No crazing or scratches otherwise. On the skid plate, there were very few small, rock dings. The doors lined up perfectly when shut properly. Where the strut was located on the bonnet for the spare, it did create a slight rise in the bonnet for some reason. The interior was covered in dust also. But once you got past the dust, everything was in great shape. The seats were not cracked, and the driver's side bolster show no signs of wear. A little Griot's Garage Leather cleaner/conditioner would have the seats looking like brand new. There was also no shrinkage of the dash or console. The original owner did install some ugly shag-like aftermarket Ferrari floor mats, but the original mats were in the trunk with the original tools (some still in plastic) and jack. The only things I cold find wrong with the interior were in the trunk where some moisture had gottent to the zip cover by the tool kit and had discolored the lighter colored fabric, and the ashtray. The stallion on the ashtray turned freely, and the actual tray was dirty. And the rubber seal to the passenger door had started to dry rot. A good detailing, and cosmetically this car would almost appear to be new. However, all the rubber lines do need replacing, the air filter plenum has some cracks and needs replacing, all the belts need replacing, the support strut for the engine lid needs to be replaced as the hydraulics are shot, and the shocks probably need to be rebuilt. The dealer hasn't started it and hasn't let anyone start it until he gets it serviced. My summary is that with a little money someone could have a really nice concourse car. But I want a driver. The owner of the dealership was willing to come down on price, but not as much as I wanted to make it worth my while. But this did wet my appetite even more, and I am interested in the feedback of the forum for what I missed in the photos. Photos to follow.
Here are some shots showing the exterior. The dirt is really evident here. Check out the mud dauber next on the front right rim to get an idea of how much dirt is present. In some of the areas it looks like there may be rust on the side seams, that's actually dirt build up. If you look at the passenger side front bumper shot, you'll see a cat print in the dirt on the bumper. If you look at the shots under the front bumper, you can see the cob webs that have built up over the years. In the photo with my pinky, is the one fault I could readily find with the paint. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here are some shots of the interior. It really did appear to be in really good condition. Nothing a little leather cleaner couldn't fix on the upholstery, and some windex for the gauges and instruent cluster. The leather had no cracks in it. The worst section of leather was on the driver's seat and I took a close up of that from about 12" so you can see the relative lack of damage. The headliner looked brand new but I forgot to get some photos of that. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Besides the paint peeling on the engine, it was evident all the lines needed to be replaced and the plenum to the air filter was cracked. There was some oxidation on the copper from the radiator. There was also the beginnings of rust on the catalytic converter, and the insulated foam hood liner had deteriorated. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
no...it is bent. common among those who try to close the lid w/o releasing the latch clip. the condition of the engine bay and boot have me questioning the legitimacy of the mileage. the photos are pretty bad quality so the car may be better than it appears in the pictures.
after looking at the pics , i am inclined to believe it is a true low mile car but has not been well owned and is in need. you would have to buy it a bit more right and hire a very good detailer to bring it back. then you can work on the mechanicals. in the mean time, DO NOT start this car or you will be paying for a full top end...trust me!!!
The options list is impressive: "... All Wheel Drive, Manual Transmission, Removable Top, Air Conditioning, Bucket Seats, Center Console, Leather Seats, Power Door Locks, Power Seats, Power Steering, Power Windows, Rear Defrost, Tilt Steering, Alarm, AM/FM Radio, Stereo/Tape, Driver Air Bag, Passenger Air Bag..." What he said. Unfortunately it looks like every seal, hose and gasket on the car is going to need replacing, and the brakes and shocks would be suspect. Hopefully the engine makes good even compression. I think the $5K estimate above is extremely optimistic -- a major service alone is ~$5K at a good independent shop. If I had to guess, I would budget $15K-$25K. BUT -- once it's restored, if the odometer is accurate, it would certainly be a $60K+ collector car. So, I'm pretty sure you'd lose money, but if you want one with a low odometer reading this is the "best" 308 I've seen. Once you have it restored, most of the value will be in the odometer, so you won't want to drive it. The seat leather looks good. Interesting find - I haven't seen one with that rear window decal.
I think we all see some things that are surprisingly good on this 308, but also some things surprisingly bad. It is a tough call- would you be better off with an unused but poorly preserved car, or one that has been used normally and babied? Even a babied car will throw you some curve balls and require some additional money. The car you are looking at is in a league of its own for potential curve balls. I love low mileage cars. I do almost all of my own work. However, I wouldn't take on this project without a good cushion in the purchase price. If you can do most of your own work, I'd say leave at least $15K between where you want to be, and what you pay. In other words, if you think you'd be comfortable at $50K total in the car when finished, don't pay over $35K. Why $15K reserve for an ultra low mileage car? 1) Parts costs: right out of the box you'll need tires, almost every rubber bit, brake work, timing belts and tensioners, but what if the clutch is stuck/rusty? Air condtioning compressor is leaking? There is quite a bit of evidence of moisture/corrosion so Pandora's box may be opened when you get into the fuel system, and 2) your time is worth something, too. Believe me, even if you get this car at a great price, there will be times in the process you will rue the very day you saw the blasted thing! Hopefully there'll be good days too. Frankly, my own $15K number makes me a little nervous for you. That's assuming there are no significant engine or gearbox problems, from abuse, neglect, corrosion, lack of antifreeze, you name it. Sometimes cars are low mileage for a reason. Good luck though and real interesting find! Unfortunately, it may be like one of those Jack in the Box toys. "You crank it round and round and when it pops, nobody knows.". (If you buy this car, do everybody a favor and throw those floor mats away before it even goes on the truck). Jeff
Jeff, The cushion is why I most likely won't buy this one. The cushion I would need to justify the purchase to myself is greater than what the dealer currently wants to come down on his price. To be fair, the dealer was willing to negotiate, but we just couldn't work out a deal. Unfortunately, the dealer talked to Ferrari of Houston, who told him if he brought it to them and they made it driveable they would ask $60,000. So he has the 60K upper limit in the brain. He listed it 17k below that mark leaving some cushion to get it to that point. Unfortunately, there aren't many people willing to pay 43k for a car that needs a lot of work. It's too big a gamble for me. For a collector who wants a nearly new car it might be worth it. But I'm looking for a driver. That said, something tells me that car will still be there for a while, since collectors willing to part with 60k total for a 308 are few and far between. I'm gonna keep an eye on it and see if I can negotiate it closer to what I would feel comfortable with, if I don't find another in the meantime. As I told some guys at work, I'm not spending the asking price then another 17,000+ for a total of 60k+ for a car that FML showed the average going price in last quarter of 2011 as 32,618. I'd be so upside down I'd turn into Cameron's dad and just stare at it and wipe it with a diaper all the time. I figure a buyer is going to be upside down on it, if he's buying a 308 for an investment I hope someone else is managing his retirement fund, but I have my limits on upside down. Since seeing the ad Monday I started pricing parts at Ricambi, Rutlands, Ferrariparts, Ebay. If I did all the work, it would take $5674 in parts alone just to get to the point where I would feel comfortable turning the key to get a compression test and leak down test to see what else I need to fix. To get her to the point that I replaced everything I saw which needed replacing or rebuilding would be $9049 in parts alone. That doesn't factor in all the unknowns, which I suspect will equal the knowns. So $18k in parts alone to get her in near pristine condition wouldn't suprise me based on my conservative estimate. This could make some collector a great find, and hopefully it goes to someone who will appreciate it rather than what is likely to happen in Arkansas (some Joe Dirt fellow buys it, tries driving it then blows it up, etc). I will say the hunt for one of these has been very exciting. I feel like a teenage kid getting ready for prom. Full of high hopes, anticipation, nerves, and excitement. I get giddy like a school girl everytime I get to go see one. My friends have started referring to Ferrari Market Letter and F-Chat as Car Porn and raz me about it quite often. Vince
This is a very interesting find, Vince. My opinion for what it's worth is that ~60%-70% of the value of this car in its present condition is in the cachet of having been driven less than 2000 miles. So anyone interested in buying this car should look to preserve that low mileage. If preserving that low mileage is the goal, spending any money making this car mechanically sound is a wasted effort since you can't ever add to that jaw dropping under 2K mileage. If the goal is to restore a car to drive, you can do much better by doing a full mechanical and cosmetic restoration on a 30k+ mileage car you pay nearly half as much for in the first place. The best thing anyone can do for this car is to bring it back cosmetically and show it as the time capsule it is. $0.02 - Glen
For a collector, $60K really isn't much money for a car that can't be duplicated. I think if someone buys this, puts $25K into it (and who knows, the engine may be OK) and hangs onto it for 10 years, then puts it up for auction, he would do OK. My philosophical problem with situations like this is that classic sports cars should, I feel, be driveable art. In the vintage car world, odometers are generally irrelevant -- it's all about originality, condition and the driving experience. I love that about vintage sports cars -- drive, maintain, rebuild, drive, maintain, rebuild, etc. I hate odometer-slave machines like the car you're considering. I even get bored when people tell me about their no-mileage car locked in their garage which I should really see except that they couldn't drive it. If I bought this one, I'd put the money into it and drive it as a nice weather car. For context, a new Porsche Boxster (base model with a few silly options like deviated stitching on the cigarette lighter) is going to sticker at $60K, and be worth half of that in a few years. Financially, this 308 isn't any dumber on the decision scale, and a lot more distinctive. The truly dumb investment, in hindsight, was buying what was a $65K (1985 dollars) car when new and then not driving it for 37 years in order to lose half the value. I doubt anyone will make money on this car, due to its improper preservation, but it is arguably the best year for the 308, in desirable colors. If you have some patience, and have $60K to play with, this could be a neat project. Just know going into it that it's a bad value in the strict financial sense.
Did the dealer try to start it? Like others have said, I hope not. I bought mine pretty cheap for the same reason you want one...I wanted a driver. I have put a lot into it since buying it though (roughly half the purchase price) to get her back up to summer fun level. The AC was a real PITA to get right but not as expensive as you might think (around $500 for the new aftermarket low weight compressor and drier). Most parts aren't hard to find and everyone here will give you plenty of sources. The little things ARE hard to find (i.e. targa top inner latch piece, front bonnet latch housing, etc). These old cars have a lot of brittle parts that occasionally break (one at a time so it seems you won't ever have it all fixed at one time). The rubber hoses get hard as a rock and (as someone pointed out earlier) should be replaced asap. I just finished replacing all my cooling hoses and you could drive nails with some of the old parts. There are a lot of cheaper alternatives to original Ferrari rubber. So, consult your mechanic or the good folks on this site before dropping (bigger) wads of cash. Cheers!
James, Nope we never tried to start it and the dealer hasn't tried either. He won't until his shop changes the belts. I explained it would take more than changing the belt before I would feel comfortable starting it. Did you get to enjoy the 308 in the sun on Saturday?
When I bought my car in 2000 the engine had not been turned for over 10 years at least by what I was told. Car was in southern states. Dry. Could turn by hand easily. Compression test was nice. I did put new belts and hoses on and fully rebuit the carbs, there was mouse **** in the carbs and one was seized on the shaft. Started it and it ran nice and smooth. Drove it as is for many years. Now I'm taking it out for head gaskets. If the engine turn over and you can check compression and leak test don't worry, it should be OK.
