DC criticizes Massa

No not shocked, if your referencing me, a good fair post.

But don't forget Todt, who first brought Massa to Ferrari as a test driver in 2003 and whose son now manages Massa, still reckons Massa is still competitive.

It can only help keeping Todt sweet.

As you said time will tell, he needs to spend more time looking in front at his own race, instead of looking for Hamilton in his mirrors.

 

Coulthard is far more qualified than any of us to pass judgement upon Massa. Exactly how many F1 GPs have you contested? If we can have an opinion, then so can he.

Agreed.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

To be fair, thinking about it I should have put a at the end of that statement.

To be honest, I think even Jean Todt must be starting to think: "Surely Massa's time at Ferrari has been and gone?"

In all honesty, I think if Massa's using his mirrors this season to spot Hamilton it'll be because Hamilton's about to lap him and not because it's for position.

I'm reckoning on Massa having a "more of the same" season as the last two years have been (thus ending his Ferrari [and possibly his F1] career), whilst Hamilton will have a good season, in part because I think Button finishing ahead of him last year annoyed him more than he has let on.

I don't particularly like adding to the Massa bashing but he's deeply disappointed Me over the last couple of seasons with his lack of fight and inability to comeback from a setback on track.

I hope he proves Me wrong but I can't help feeling that he's going to disappoint yet again and that this will be his last season at the Scuderia.

 

+1 its now or never again for Felipe this year...no question.

 

Thank you for that, you are absolutely correct! (I think old age must be getting to me! )

He drove what he had very well but I think he lucked in a bit with the conditions and the set up they'd chosen compared to the others. Changeable conditions can always give the underdog a chance of winning, it just depends on who guesses correctly on the day.

But can he win in a car that's not ( ) the best on track? (when conditions stay stable): we've yet to see that from Vettel but Alonso and Hamilton have both proved they can.

Totally agree with all that.

They're not the first and they won't be the last to race on beyond their time.
Like I say, Massa's a nice enough guy but he plays the victim a bit too much and lets himself get bullied on track. Once that happens, his driving goes quiet and he just gives in. If he suffers a setback on track, he seems to lack the determination to fightback from it in the way Alonso or Hamilton would.

 

I beg to differ. He's certainly been a disappointment the past couple of seasons but remember he was the #1 overtaker in 2010 and pretty close (behind the Schu) last year. Now, the haters will say that's because he can't qualify, but if you measure "fighting back" etc by # of competitive overtakes, he's done very well.

Certainly, he's in his "contract year" and won't be back if he doesn't do substantially better - "That's racing" - Everyone recognizes that. But lets hope he gets a decent car and finds his mojo. As LdM said of him reccently, he was faster than Michael on occasion. The guy *can* drive.

The "hopeless romantic",
Cheers,
Ian

 

I'm honestly hoping you're right and I'm wrong but I got My hopes up for the last two years running that Massa would be back to his best and it never happened.

This year I'm going with pessimism for Massa, that way I'll either be overjoyed at being proved wrong or I'll be able to give a smug: "Told you so!" post at the end of the season!

As for:

Based on the last couple of seasons I'm worried it's more a case of: he was faster than Michael on occasion. The guy *could* drive.

Fingers crossed I'm proved wrong!

 

+1

He's still gonna get blown away by Fred - That's expected and I think even he accepts that.

But, it sure would be nice to see him up his chuff on occasion......

As you say, "fingers crossed!" - The hatred and vitriol aimed at one of the most loyal and experienced drivers Ferrari have had for some time is out of line IMO.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Because he has a contract in place for this season maybe? I agree, he's got to do better if he's to have any chance of an extension. I'm really pulling for the guy and we'll leave it at that for now.

Cheers,
Ian

 

He did do what the team asked him to do though didn't he (albeit blatantly executed), he didn't refuse to do it, he did tow the company line about what happened even though he didn't want, and he didn't quite Ferrari out of principle did he? (and I don't seem to recall Barrichello walking out on Ferrari either!)

How many other times has he done similar things that have not been so obvious?
If he wasn't loyal to Ferrari, why would they keep him on at all? (regardless of any sentimentality, look at Prost: if you're not loyal then Ferrari will drop you - whoever you are!)

This part cannot be argued against.

However, if Ferrari truly believed there was someone able to do the job better right now then they would have offloaded Massa in a heartbeat.

 

Perhaps they both knew/know too much about what really went on/goes on with the teams!
(Now there's a conspiracy theory for you! )

 

Remember how long Ferrari stuck with Alesi and Berger ... they don't always get the drivers right.

Pete

 

Hahaha, spot the mistake - Vettel ends up bumping into other cars, has no race craft. Ok, then - hamilton has speed, experience, race craft

I'm no fan of Vettel, but I'd hazard a guess he has at least the racecraft of the bumper car boy, which means alonso is out in front of both of them driver-wise........ Ferrari just need to match the cars and we will have a champion

 

I never said it disqualified him nor did I criticize his career and you must admit he likes to find fault in everyone else except himself. I never disliked DC but I was never a big fan of his either mainly because I'm more of a Ferrari guy than a McLaren guy.

 

I loved those guys. They were fantastic drivers.

 

But never going to win a WDC, particularly Berger who was only competitive when he felt like it. Alesi could never turn his speed into winning ...

The best drivers in that period were: Prost, Senna, Mansell and Piquet (Nelson).

BTW: Berger won 5 races for Ferrari. BUT apparently he was instrumental in bringing Jean Todt to Ferrari so that masssively makes up for the inability behind the steering wheel.

Prost won 5 races in one year, and Mansell 3 races (but when the car made it to the end of the race they both were nearly always on the podium)
Pete

 

Alesi was an amazing driver, far better than Mansell...i talked the other day with Nigel Roebuck and he also had the same opinion, same as Berger and Frank Williams...i remenber in 94, nelson Piquet said.
"Give a benetton to alesi and you will see who is goig to be the world champion". Races like Suzuka 95 just shows how good he was....to me, the firts driver to really deserve being watched since Gilles.

 

Mind me asking if you're from Brazil? If yes, what's the feelings there about Rubens being forced out?

Cheers,
Ian[/QUOTE]


No, i´m from Portugal, but i have family in S.Paulo, and i don´t think they care much for Rubens!!! AS for me, i don´t like him, i think he was a bit ridiculous...he was a talented driver but lacked self respect, he spoke a lot against ferrari but was happy enough to drive the best car for 5 years and to earn a load of money to do it...if he wasnt happy, it shouldn´t take him 5 years to quit!!!! I won´t miss him...i have a friend of mine who works at Honda and Knows him, and she tells me he is a fantastic person, very, very nice, he probably is, but as a driver, i think he needeed a litle more backbone...and he was the worst starter i ever saw!! i used to say he always sttarted in reverse gear!!!

 

Surprisingly I somewhat agree with you, except the comparison to Gilles.

But in the end you have to be able to win races and Alesi could not, and yes Mansell couldn't originally but eventually he got over this and became a winner. Alesi never did, and when he replaced MS at Benetton they never won again ... and yet the year before the team were champions!

Yes the Ferrari's of the Alesi and Berger times were not the best car on the grid, but they also were not the worst, and immediately when MS turned up he managed to win a race ... and Prost AND Mansell were able to win before hand.

So yes Alesi was exciting to watch, but history only remembers winners ... and he never lived up to the expectations. I personally think moving to Ferrari was a poor decision ... to close to an Italian in an Italian team. It never works, too much arm waving and passion instead of results .
Pete

 

No, i´m from Portugal, but i have family in S.Paulo, and i don´t think they care much for Rubens!!! AS for me, i don´t like him, i think he was a bit ridiculous...he was a talented driver but lacked self respect, he spoke a lot against ferrari but was happy enough to drive the best car for 5 years and to earn a load of money to do it...if he wasnt happy, it shouldn´t take him 5 years to quit!!!! I won´t miss him...i have a friend of mine who works at Honda and Knows him, and she tells me he is a fantastic person, very, very nice, he probably is, but as a driver, i think he needeed a litle more backbone...and he was the worst starter i ever saw!! i used to say he always sttarted in reverse gear!!![/QUOTE]

By any chance a Ronaldo fan then?

 

Well, Mansell only learnt to win when he had a VERY good Williams (and even to win a championship, he needed that Patrick Head told Patresse to lift off a bit, just to be sure he didn´t screw things up again).

Blaming Alesi for the downfall of his teams is not fair, as Benetton kept sinking without him and Ferrari needed a new factory and a new technical team to win, not just new drivers. Although as Jean Todt admitted years later, Alesi was not very useful when testing a car.

It´s easy to say that it was a bad move... ten years later. But when Alesi signed with Ferrari, they were the second team, while his other option, Williams, was 4th, with half the points of Ferrari. Back then, Ferrari was the SAFE decision.