The Ultimate 355 Brake system, or what I built over summer!

First, a quick intro. I'm a mechanical engineer, specialising in hydraulics. I have a small collection of cars that include 3 Ferraris, and I own a small manufacturing company based in Melbourne Australia.
I don't like to "re-invent the wheel",but in the case of the 355 brakes I found no option but to do so.
To begin with the standard 355 brakes are excellent, and all you would want for road use, particularly if you use a high quality Pagid or Ferodo Pads.
They will also stand up to your standard club style sprint racing. 3 to 4 hard laps of your average circuit.
My problems began while on a performance driver training day I tried to stay out on the circuit for a full 20 minute session. To cut a very long story short, I cracked 2 sets of rear discs.
Yes, the rear brakes run almost 100 deg. C hotter than the front. I believe the thinner rear disc, plus no rear cooling air ducts are the problem.
The answer, upgrade the brakes!
I looked at all the existing systems available such as Mov-it, Stoptech, Brembo etc.
but found both technical faults and pricing issues.
To sum up, Ferrari, for what ever reason decided to use the same front and rear calipers and discs. the system balance, and front to rear pad wear proves it works.
why mess with it?
Also the 355 challenge cars use the same 355mm discs front to rear and same front to rear calipers. The spare part numbers confirm this.
So, WHY would you offer a system that has front brake upgrade only, or offer a system with different front to rear disc size, and 6pot front and 4pot rear calipers, then claim to do this for balance?
It aint rocket science, I decided to make my own system using Brembo 6pot calipers front and rear and the same AP brake 362mm X 32mm discs front and rear.
Recently I had the opportunity to test my system on the track, and found the results to be amazing.
No fade, the rear discs are running less than 40 deg. C hotter.
However, the biggest improvement was in "Pedal-Feel" the brakes are far more controllable and progressive at the limit.
Mission accomplished.
What do you think?
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I think you should have made me a set.

Honestly they look great. I have been wanting to upgrade to Brembos big brake kit, however cost is a major factor.

 

Badass!!!

What a great way to introduce yourself Bob. Welcome to FerrariChat.

On a side note, are you gonna go to the race? If so let's meet up!

 

I've used this forum, for info on my cars on many occasions.
I feel obligated to give something back!
we all love the photos!
If your referring to the GP, I'll see you there.
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Yes I am.

What section are you gonna be in? I'll be in Jones.

 

I wonder if adding the challenge rear brake duct setup might have solved the heat problem? Better feel is always a good thing, though. What tires are you running?

 

Rear brake cooling would certainly help. I looked at the challenge rear cooling system, but didn't quite understand how it works. I thought the rear chanals produce negative, ie vacuum, pressure to increase downforce. If this is correct, the cooling air hoses would be sucking, instead of blowing???

I'm running Toyo Proxes R888's, very happy with them.

Ernie,
I will be going on the Saturday, with a group of mates, to watch the Qualifying.
PM me if you want to get together.

 

I love it! a really nice upgrade, essential for track use. I wonder how it works on street. For sure many ferrari owners would like to have a kit like this. Have you thought of marketing them?

 

If you are happy with your R888's you would be over the moon with BF Goodrich R1's. Awesome grip on your first lap, no time wasted trying to get the R888 into their zone.
Your Brake upgrade, Fantastic!

 

PM sent.

I also have a thread in the Aussie section.

 

In short the new brake system is better both on the track as on the road. Due to the following:
As mentioned earlier, the standard 355 brakes are excellent for road use, however to use them on the track you need to run a performance pad with higher friction coefficient, and temperature handling. I used Pagid RS14 pads with the original 355 brakes, they worked great on the track, but only for a short time. And boy do they squeal when cold, on road use, also low initial bite when cold.
I'm running Ferodo 2500 pads on the new system, I felt I could reduce the pad friction level a little, but still benefit from the brake rotor/caliper improvement. The brake bite feels the same but the pedal feel has improved. No more noise and no fade, they also perform better when cold.

I'm not really interested in supplying full brake systems.
As I am located in Australia, it would make little sense in posting regular Bolts, Disc Rotors, or Calipers half way around the world. They are heavy. I would be prepared to supply the custom machined items such as the Hats and Caliper brackets, and supply a specification sheet for the calipers and disc rotors and all other items.
I have all the programs to run on my machines, but it would not be economical to manufacture a single set, due to cost of machine setup.
However, If there is enough interest I would be happy to quote a group buy.
My costs were far cheaper than the industry standard.

The overall system price would vary depending on choice of disc Rotor etc. DBA rotors are much cheaper than AP brake rotors. Also if you wanted to purchase used calipers as apposed to new.

I will list a full specification of the brake system shortly,for anyone that's interested.

 

Nice job. We would all like to see even more.

 

I'm Interested.

 

First I'll say I'm not an engineer of any kind. Just because Ferrari choose equal sized F/R setups does not mean that is the best set-up. It means that was the best compromise and we will never know what Ferrari had in mind. Was it really performance? Was it cost? Was it easy if installation? Yes it is not rocket science but there is alot to consider.

 

Interested to see what you've got.

 

I'd be in the interested category as well.

 

Interested as well.

Thanks

JD

 

I'd almost be willing to take a trip down under to bring back a case of these parts!

Almost...

 

Would love to get the custom machined parts so all we need are the bolt on goodies

Really nice setup and very needed on this machine

 

Bob- Beautiful set-up for your brakes. Looks good and works good. Cannot ask for much more than that.

You probably could make money selling those adapters. First rate work.

 

OK, I think you missed the point. Why, is not important. Having worn through several sets of pads on my standard brakes, they always measure within 0.2mm in thickness, front to rear.
Initially my brakes had a very slight tendency to lock the rears, but after changing from 265 to 285 rear tyres,the front tends to lock. In short, I find the brake balance to be just about spot on.
Also do you think if there was any fault or compromise with the road car brakes, they wouldn't fix it on the challenge cars? Have you ever heard a complaint regarding the challenge brake system?
Yes, equal sized F/R brakes work for the F355. Why mess with it.

 

Wow, looks like there's plenty of interest.
Rather than just list components at this stage, I would like to explain why I chose them, as the final system spec. is very flexible.
Sorry, but the complete specification may take me a day or two to complete, i'm very busy with work, and life in general!

First off, the Caliper, The main reason I chose this Brembo unit was price and availability.
This caliper is used as the ultimate upgrade for an Australian built, Muscle car.
I have track experience with this caliper, and know it can pull up an 1800kg, front engined car, time and time again. Mind you, the red brake caliper color does turn brown!
The caliper is a monoblock design, ie: 1 piece, very rigid construction.
Next, the caliper is available to purchase through a number of Australian performance outlets. I purchased two calipers from a performance store, and two on Ebay.
The piston sizes were spot on 30,34,38mm a 20% increase on original.
The caliper was designed to run 355mm disc rotors.
Original caliper weighs 2.880kg. New 3.740kg.

Next came the disc rotors, I looked at Brembo, Dba, and AP racing.
My first choice was Dba, 355 X 32mm, It's a great value disc, and the quality is excellent.
I was not particularly impressed with the Brembo disc rotors, Very expensive for average quality.
Finally i chose the AP racing rotor, It's a 362 X 32 rotor, It also is very expensive, but the quality is outstanding. The casting registration on the AP rotor would be within 0.1 to 0.2mm, as compared to the Brembo, 0.5 to 0.7mm But what really impressed me was the weight, the AP rotor is 1.2kg lighter than the other two. And cutting 1.2kg per corner of the unsprung weight was imo. worth it.
Obviously, if the reason you are looking to upgrade your brakes is more "street-cred", than track potential, I would go for the Dba rotors, they are less than 1/2 the price, They also work great on the track.
Again, less track, you may also want to go for drilled rotors look.
It really comes down to budget.
Time for more pics!
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It looks like the rotors your using allow you to still have the park brake. Correct?

 

That's actually the brake hat.

 

Bob- Sometimes I think Ferrari does not apply that much science to their braking systems, but more trial and error, which works great. So on the F430 the steel brakes have equal size rotors F&R, both with four piston calipers, but the CCM brakes have 380 mm rotors front with six piston calipers and 350 mm rotors rear with four piston calipers. Who knows? Trial and error with piston size and balance make it work and ABS takes up the slack.

How are you getting lock-up with ABS? Or does it just feel like one end is about to lock up until ABS kicks in to stop the lock?