Well, they're wrong. Seriously, I don't think those people have thought it through. Before the FF and the F12, the subcategories were set up by generation (456, 550, 575 and 612, 599) and as far as I can tell, that worked great. The only exception was the Mondial which frankly could be interspersed between the 308 and 348 subcategories. I guess I don't understand what all the second guessing is about. Are people questioning the grouping of the 456 with the 550 and the 612 with the 599? I don't think they are. The discussions that will go on about the F12 (ordering, specifying, warranty issues, maintenance, engineering defects, specifications, troubleshooting, and on and on and on) will have very little to no relevance to the 599 owner. But hey, I do not, nor will I in the foreseeable future own either a 599 or F12 so I guess I really have no dog in this fight. -F
+1 Come on people, think ahead. Putting FF with 612 and F12 with 599 will seem stupid the day FF's and F12s successors comes out... What will you do then, have a 612/FF/"FF2" and a 599/F12/"F13" section? Much better to do the same generational divide that already works well today and let there be 456/550, 612/599, FF/F12, "FF2"/"F13" sections... Rob, what's your opinion?
I am still open minded. Most are making good points on all sides. I may be leaning to single forum for F12 and down the road we can make a better decision what to do with Cali, FF, F12, 612 replacement etc. Also if the size of FChat warrants sole forums anyway. Things aren't clear as they once were with the Ferrari model lines.
These forums are in the section of fchat called "Model Specific Forums". Therefore, EVERY model ought to have its own forum. It is not a big deal to scroll through a handful of additional forum titles within that section. Make the F12 its own forum. And the FF ... And the 458 ... etc. Go back and break out the old models too. Separate the 308 posts from the 328 posts. The 360 posts from the 430 posts. Etc. These groupings are arbitrary and add no value. Think about it, the Mondial model has had its own forum for years and it hasn't caused anyone any concern. If the post you want to enter covers more than one model, then it doesn't belong in the Model Specific Forums. It belongs in the Ferrari Discussion forum. 'Nuff said.
When the preproduction 612s came out in 2003, they had a brand new chassis and a 575 drivetrain, including engine, transaxle, and single plate clutch and the Superamerica-based F1A system. The 599 used a shortened version of the 612 chassis with an an Enzo derived type F140C engine, new transaxle, and very strong dual plate clutch. In the 2007 timeframe, the Sessanta/OTO was introduced with the transaxle case and dual plate clutch of the 599. The two are closely related and share many ancilliaries. The F12 is even more closely related to the FF than the 612 is to the 599. A shortened version of the same chassis and the same drivetrain less the AWD. Same engine in higher state of tune and near identical DCT. So I voted for the FF/F12 in the same forum. The 456/550/575 forum works because the models share so much, clutch and T/O bearing, suspension, wheel fitments, etc. Same for the 612/599. So why would we change that for the FF/F12? Just an opinion, and too much work on a bloody Blackberry.
What he said. Keep the models separate. The FF and F12 are different model lineups. Why put them together
Just give the F12 it's own section. The FF, Cali, and 458 all have their own now, so we may as well continue that pattern. Keeps things simple, straight forward. Not sure it is worth anyone's time to break up the old 599/612 section though.
Before reading the thread, I would say 612/FF and 599/F12 ... It makes sense, since the first two are GT cars and the other two are Supersport cars... However, I agree with all of those saying what it's all about the platform and the components... I bet more FF and F12 owners will have more things in common than 612 and FF , or 599 and F12... While we are on the subject, what would you do with Enzo replacement... Probably separate thread, right ??? I think the 288/F40/F50/Enzo thread is pretty full... right ?
I don't think there is a need to give it its own section or break up old sections. For everyone that said the FF/F12 won't work, due to different market segments and such, I cannot agree. The 599/612 section works very well. Similar parts, similar issues, and even similar looks. It will be the same for the FF/F12. I cannot comprehend how one would think a 599/F12 and a FF/612 section would work. There will be no information shared across the platforms, therefore it will be like having 2 sections under 1. Rob, follow the same format you have now. It works incredibly well because its the way it should be. Think about that. I would put that in the 288/F40/F50/Enzo section. There really aren't that many issues brought up like you see in the 360/430 section. My guess is there will be a few threads on it. Probably one for pictures, mechanicals, and a few others.
The F12 is overwhelming the 599/612 section so changes need to be made. Moving the 599 GTO section to the 599 XX forum also makes a lot of sense and eliminates a lot congestion and confusion.
I think you might have read the first two sentences differently than I intended. Not your fault, I should have been clearer. By not breaking up old sections I meant not giving each car its own. The F12 NEEDS to come out of the 599/612 section. That break up I'm good for.
OK, leaning towards w/FF right now. However, still might just make it solo for awhile and then combine down the road. What has thrown me for a trip is Ferrari has been making two similar models before a big jump. 308/328, 348/355, 360/430, 550/575. To me the F12 doesn't look like a big exterior design jump from the 599, although from reports it seems they made more internal revolutions with the F12 (maybe more similar to 348 to 355?).
Rob- Direct injection V12, DCT, multi-link rear suspension. Not much shared with the 599, but all of those are characteristics of the FF.
Others have said it better than me. FF/F12 and 612/599 due to platform similarities. F12 threads/comments are drowning out everything 599/612.
If the main reason for grouping is to be able to share and learn from the common technical aspects of different models, then the FF/F12 and 612/599 pairing makes a lot of sense, even though the FF and F12 are aimed at different markets.
True, but if that's the case the 599/612 section is also incorrect. If you follow the market segments, it should have been 550/575/599 and 456/612.
OK, done deal, give me a few minutes... F12 with FF, that forum has capacity for more activity anyway. thanks for all the input!
