F12 front fender | Page 2 | FerrariChat

F12 front fender

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by jm2, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    6,066
    Thanks for the information. I do believe that the overall drag coefficient for the car is what Ferrari states. The lower overall profile and the double bubble roof and the hatchback , all improve the CD.

    I would love to see some of the reviewers (R&T or even Top Gear UK) try to do some physical measurements of the Aero Bridge, though.
     
  2. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
    6,114
    Three Places
    The air would need to find a lower hydrostatic pressure by following the channel to the bridge rather than up the windshield or (more likely) around the side windows. You can't tell by looking at it.

    FWIW here is an animation showing something similar but different on the side flow of the 2012 F1 car http://www.extremsportlounge.com/new-ferrari-f1-2012/car-aerodynamics-video_b01bb9f20.html

    Someone will do a test on the F1.
     
  3. Trabots

    Trabots Formula Junior

    May 15, 2011
    500
    Perth, West Aust
    Full Name:
    Willy Stobart
    I agree.
     
  4. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,678
    Silicon Valley
    When I read your post, it reminded me of this clip from years past re the Mercedes CLK racer.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rJjVaoJjLM[/ame]
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,320
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    The area in front of the windshield is a high pressure area that has been used for years with backward facing intakes for the engine. It has also been very effective as an area for taking in ventilation air for the passenger compartment or the climate control system. So there is no doubt air would go into the lower pressure opening and out the vent. Whether it provides any meaningful downforce is another question. Flow could be easily determined with tufting or with smoke introduced into a wind tunnel. Absolute numbers for downforce could also be easily measured by comparing numbers with the fender intakes blocked and open. We probably will never see those numbers, but it is a striking feature and I like the looks of it.
     
  6. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
    6,114
    Three Places
    Yes. Lift can ruin your day at 210 mph. A Boeing 737 takes off at 160 mph. Since lift force goes as the square of the velocity, at 210 mph (everything else being equal) lift forces are more than 70% higher.

    Also stability under wind gusts from different directions is important. At 200 mph, a sideward 50 mph wind gust will suddenly put the effective wind direction 14 degrees off of the direction of travel. Since the vehicle almost certainly has a higher coefficient of drag when the wind comes from off the direction of travel, it will instantaneously start to slow down. But if those down force devices are directionally sensitive, the car can leave the ground.

    I have great respect for the people who design cars like this that are safe (relatively) at these speeds and also beautful.
     
  7. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    6,066
    #32 MalibuGuy, Mar 11, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
    I think Porsche also had 2 cars that flipped at Le Mans due to speed and air lifting the front of the car. The event caused Porsche to withdraw from Le Mans
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,320
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    From what I have seen of those accidents, it looked like they were trying to imitate a Harrier ski jump launch. Cresting a hill, suspension extends, air gets under the car, and physics takes over.
     
  9. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro F1 Rookie

    May 6, 2007
    2,574
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Vig
    It's too ugly to not be functional.
     
  10. ferrari aficionado

    Feb 10, 2009
    42
    No, contrary to popular belief I highly doubt this is a gimmick, because Ferrari not only has their own wind tunnel but also has the best engineers and has spent million on research and development, greatly increasing the competition of the super car high market sector and turning this into a game of science as well as passion.

    Also, the design journal source was actually helpful (but only the comments below) Basically, like someone said before, it acts as an inverted wing, but also air travels faster underneath the bridge rather than over it, creating a difference in pressure and therefore downforce. It reduces drag in the sense that air the would have gone over the cockpit is now being directed over the sides, and those sides have groves which I presume creates some additional downforce.

    In terms of that funny vent on the rear hind quarters, my first guess was a pressure vent for rear wheel pressure. The Ferrari F12 Berlinetta website states that it is a "Blown rear diffuser (the area of high pressure around the rear spoiler is used to alter the pressure inside the rear wheel arch to increase efficiency", but this animation seems to tell us that it's directed to the lower bottom diffuser, but I'm not sure if that air is exiting around the exhaust pipes or the actual diffuser. Any thoughts?
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu8ULofXo4Q[/ame]

    Lastly, does anyone know what the button closer to the steering wheel does? Just wondering. Again, any thoughts are helpful.
    http://www.netcarshow.com/ferrari/2013-f12berlinetta/1600x1200/wallpaper_08.htm

    Thanks everyone!

    Wow, I'm honestly blown away by this car. It looks remarkably similar to the FF, as if Ferrari told their designer to take the FF, make it a real Ferrari and make it look more attractive. It seems as though each Ferrari just ups the benchmark, just when no one thought it was possible.

    We can see that they are of course taking R & D even more seriously, and optimizing performance while decreasing the carbon footprint.

    Also, this really marks the transition to a "post-post modern" Ferrari, just because of the level of technology, efficient design, and that their whole model range now sticks with the trends first introduced with the California in 2008.

    I can't wait to see this car in person! Dealership launch parties, come quickly please!
     
  11. ferrari aficionado

    Feb 10, 2009
    42
    ^In addition, has anyone noticed the aerospace influence on the car?

    1. Interior ari vents look remarkably like afterburners

    2. The "aero bridge" is pretty much a reverse wing

    3. The adaptive brake coolers have actual moving pieces (that are motorized) similar to the wing of a plane.

    4. The construction is a further mixture of aluminum composites.

    ...interesting...
     
  12. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
    6,114
    Three Places
    I don't understand the animation of the rear flow. It seems that it would make for lift since air is being deflected downwards. (Newton's 3rd law). I suspect the animation is misleading.
     
  13. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2010
    25,415
    Northern Virginia
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    Bob
    The animation might be misleading, but it's not an airfoil. That downward flow from the front to the center deflects upward at the rear, per the maybe flawed animation. It's not one thing happening, not a leading edge/trailing edge. If it does much, it doesn't do the same thing down the length of the car. It appears as though it's creating low pressure forward to force air along the sides sides to create downforce in the rear. That low pressure forward would tend to create lift forward, but not the length of the car, and the undercarriage forward that we can't see would have something to say about it, too.
     
  14. Milanno

    Milanno Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2012
    949
    #39 Milanno, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
    If we see aero bridge on F12 successor than we will know it is serious piece of engineering that is really needed on fast cars to keep them stable.

    If not, than aero bridge was styling detail especially made for F12 with aim to get more buyers thrilled about superb aerodynamic capabilities of their future car.

    I assume that someone will ask how Lambo keeps Aventador on ground going 350+ km/h or how is Veyron stable as hell on insane speeds that F12 will never reach. I dunno, perhaps rear wing is doing some part of job, but I am not sure for that statement.
     
  15. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2007
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    goodbye
    i'm also confused by this aero bridge :(

    In general, you wouldn't want the airflow over the top of the vehicle to take any convoluted, longer-than-necessary path. If the airflow path on the top of the vehicle is longer than the airflow path across the bottom, then the airflow across the top must travel at a higher velocity. And higher velocity means lower pressure ... which creates lift, rather than downforce, if that higher-velocity/longer-path is on top. That's how/why the classic wing airfoil works.

    It's a bold design element, to be sure :) but i'd need to learn lots more to understand how this long, higher-velocity airflow path across the top actually aids downforce ??
     
  16. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
    6,114
    Three Places
    Yes, the general idea of the inverted wing along the side seems correct. But I am still scratching my head over the animation that shows air deflected downward at the rear. That would seem to create lift at the rear, so it doesn't seem to make sense, relative to just having the flow exit the rear of the vehicle at the fender line. It's like putting a little vertical rocket at the rear.
     
  17. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 29, 2007
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    goodbye
    But you don't have the flatter section above the "inverted wing along the side", to create a pressure differential that could, potentially, create downforce. Instead, you've got a similar shape (inverted), above (namely, the roof). The net result is just a longer, more convoluted path across the top and side of the car :( still seems more of a "net lifting" effect on the whole vehicle.

    EDIT : imagine really extending an inverted wing past the side of the vehicle, by several feet. We could all easily agree that a net downforce is created (along with drag, of course). Now, start shortening that inverted wing "extension" until it not only comes flat with the sides of the vehicle, but actually penetrates into the side of the vehicle. I would argue that you lose all potential downforce by doing so ...
     

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