Anyone lease their 458?

I read that whole thread for me leasing never made sense.The last one I did 10-12 years ago with low payments great factor.I lost my shirt on it when I sold the car.That left me with a sting I never forgot.If you don't pay up front.You will pay at the end.These cars are not cheap.I've had (3) Ferrari's I paid my first one in full $198k and sold it. Every time I've sold one I buy another one,I take the sale money and add 50k-65k then buy another one and my factor rate is (0) My payment (0)and the lease payments of $4350 @72months= 252k @6.5% total payments 313K.I keep that and buy something else and that's the way to lease a car

 

I agree with you. Unless you can write it off, you lose in the long run. I had a lease done on my 348 spider and ended up paying it off 2 years early because I figured out I'd be paying ~$17k in interest on a $50k car. Made me sick. Now I'm saving up to buy a 430 spider outright. I learned my lesson. It kept my payments down which allowed me to get my car sooner so I can't be too mad.

 

yeah the only lease deal that make cents are those mfg special lease like.....
$299 C class
$399 Boxter
$499 e class


good lease must have low money factor
high residual
big discount from MSRP (rebates/incentive)

which will never happens on F cars.

 

I do not post here in this area or this forum much but I purchased a 348 salvage car to take the track a few years back. That plan has been going incredibly poorly by the way. I would like to add a few things to this whole leasing thread though. I recently got into this leasing thing after getting married my wife has to have newer stuff. Cars are like a big deal to her they are safer if they are newer. Do not bother telling me otherwise she will show you data up the Wahzoo!! It is what she does.

I lease a new f car now and have done so for my present car as well as my previous one. I lease short term though for what ever that matters. Gets me those new safety features. . Other then tires it has been fairly painless.

I have not read this whole thread just did not feel like it. But I would think that if someone is concerned with the mortgage payments or the country club membership they probably should not even be looking at any type of luxury car! This stuff is for disposable income in the way that you would piss it down the toilet on say something like say strippers.

It is your money spend it how you wish.

 

I love when people talk about leases. For those with ADD the bottom line from my numbers it is $151/month more expensive for 5 year lease on a $329k Ferrari compared to paying $329k cash but please don't lease Ferrari unless you have the $245k cash to cover ALL your lease payments.
I apologize this is so long but leasing has a lot of variables. I've attached a spreadsheet I created that I use when I need to remind myself how much I like leasing (But in this case not so much leasing Ferrari)
I paid cash for my F430 because I am planning on keeping it for a long time (10+ years?). But I always lease my BMW’s because it’s less expensive then trading in my BMW every 3 years for a new one.
Right now I'm leasing my X6 for $960/month. When I tell people this amount they cringe because it sounds very high. But to buy the car was $75k+$5400 in taxes minus my $6800 for lower money factor = $74k and I'm making approx $245/month off that $74k I saved by leasing. So if I was to trade my X6 in after 3 years and the dealer gave me 59% for my trade, I'm actually saving $130/month by leasing my X6.
Now on to Ferrari, same leasing variables different money factor also might require large down payment? But to keep it simple lets say $0 down and no way to lower .0027 money factor, 50% 60 month residual, $308k MSRP + $21k tax = $329k to buy. Depreciation would be $2,566/month, interest $1,247, monthly payment with 6.75% tax = $4,071. With $329k I can make $1,096/month, so interest $1247-$1096 = $151/month more expensive to lease.
So based on my numbers it is $151/month more expensive for 5 year lease. This is comparing paying $329k cash to buy, and sell the car after 5 years for 50% of MSRP or $154,000.
My advice for buying Ferrari is paying cash is the least expensive way to go (but only about $10k cheaper over 5 years). But if you don't have $329k and still want one make sure you have at least the $245k cash so you know you will be able to make all your lease payments. If you don't have $245k then don't buy a 458, buy a used F430 or 360 or whatever you have the cash available to buy. If you don't have enough cash then just invest and keep saving and trying to make MORE MONEY!! But please don't brake the piggy bank to buy a Ferrari...
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Another fact left out is your insurance is higher on a lease.Your mileage is very limited and try to bail on that car early.In these times Real estate finacing the banks now question all your liabilites and your ability to pay,Example one of my close friends leased a Lamborgini his payment $3200 and a bunch of other leases the bank turned him down for high debts on a commercial loan.He is a high net worth and income producing.The formula the banks have totally changed the enviroment of commercial lending.I could have bought a ferrari long ago.But I waited till I did'n't think twice about it and I was in my complete comfort zone.I've seen most of my friends hit the ground highly leveraged huge incomes and when they sold out,They were destroyed.I don't wish that on anyone.

 

Insurance is not higher on a lease, at least it has never been here in KY. Couldn't comment on other states.

I agree about the liabilities and financing. We are building a new house and have been very conscious about this. When I decided to lease, instead of tie up capital in the Ferrari, I did so through my property company. So, it doesnt list as a liability to me directly.

J

 

When leasing in California the requirements for insurance are different.Higher liabilites and the deductible they usually will not go over a $1000 and will not consider an umbrella policy.My insurance is $1290 a year on my 2011 458.I don't know about KY.I understand to write it off.However my CPA would go crazy with a Ferrari and its not worth the explanation

 

You guys lease all you want. But you have to be honest with yourself on math.

If you take a car costing $308,000 and put down $50,000, then you are financing $258,000.

Paying $3,300 per month and then having a residual of $154,000 means that you are paying 11.65% in interest. This in addition to the $50,000 down payment that you made.

 

I think the most you can write off in the first year is like 3k (used) or 11k (new). So assuming the highest tax bracket of 40%, that would save at most $4400 in taxes. Thats also assuming you don't hit alt min. It certainly doesn't make sense to use taxes as a justification for leasing a Ferrari. There's always a cost to borrow money and high depreciation so I can't think of any case where it would make sense.

 

I think everyone is sort of missing the big picture here, especially as it relates to Ferrari.

I am not keeping my car five years. I will keep it a maximum of 2, sell it, pocket the difference and get a new one. For me, it keeps my money more liquid and doesn't "tie it up" in the vehicle until I sell it. That's the beauty, at least to me, of the open ended leases through Ferrari Financial.

I agree, if you are truly gonna keep it 5 years, you are better to buy/finance it outright.

J

 

you mean besides the money for Ferrari you dont have other liquid assets?
there are plenty ways to get cheap money to keep the cash flow, leasing is the worse among them.

for Insurance, leasing require you have higher liabliity coverage, on a purchase I think is 15k-30k coverage, leasing is100k-300k. BUT I believe most people here have coverage thats way over that so it shouldn't be a concern. the cost of insurance is really noting like few hundred dollars different per year.

 

No. I have plenty of other liquid assets. However, I am building a house. Trying to place as much cash as I can flexible.

I can't see tying up my 260k right now. Just doesn't make sense for me at this time. I like the way it works for me. There are plenty of opinions and options for everyone. That's what makes it awesome to have the choice.

For me, right now, with my other cars paid for in cash, it makes the most sense. Especially since it is through my property company, it is not an liability listed against me.

J

 

In many states, you pay sales tax on lease payments. So, if the total of our lease payments exceeds the original sales price, then you save nothing.

 

If anyone is worried about sales tax register the car in Montana

 

this may add gasoline to fire but to sum the scenarios...

Scenario #1: Buy the car in cash. Not too many can afford to do this but if you have the means and can afford to spend $300K on a car and pay for it in cash clearly you are not struggling to pay bills or save a portion of the money for other investments. This is the best option to buy a car.

Scenario #2: Buy the car but finance it. As we all know cars are a depreciable asset so most likely you will lose money but not as much as leasing it. As much as we love to have sports cars many rush into purchasing such a vehicle. Say purchasing a light used Ferrari 458 average value $300K with 20% down, you are financing $240K at approx 6%-7% for the next 10yrs. The monthly payment roughly = $2,725 and interest in the 10years will total about $87K. So to total it up at the end of ten yrs you would have paid nearly $400K for a $300K and at the end of 10 yrs the car is probably worth around $110K-$130K depending on condition and looking at how ferraris depreciate. So basically in the 10yrs you just lost about $270K or $27K/yr.

Scenario #3: Lease the car or as I call it "Showing Off". This is probably the worst option to "buy" a car as you are making payment on something you do not own nor can you drive as much as you want due to the mileage restrictions (or pay extra) unless you can claim the lease payment as a business write-off. True you can probably afford making the $2,500 or $3,000 a month to make the lease payments (or probably higher) but you are also paying for insurance and maintenance on a car that is not yours and you have to bring back at end of lease. So why put on a show? Might as well rent a Ferrari if you want to show off. There are plenty of companies where you can rent one and you do not have to waste thousands of dollars on lease payments, insurance and clearly maintenance is not cheap. So why do it??? Plenty of my clients have returned their leases and joined as members and actually confirmed savings thousands of dollars from avoiding lease payments and storage/maintenance costs...

To sum it up, buy the car in cash or put a substantial (%) down or stop acting and showing off as you are clearly loosing money but hey if you prefer the latter then good luck to you!

 

Who perpetrated this quintessence of molding putrefaction. Truth be told, I totally concur with your conjectures, NOT You know what the say about opinions...

 

Scenario #1: Buy the car in cash. Not too many can afford to do this but if you have the means and can afford to spend $300K on a car and pay for it in cash clearly you are not struggling to pay bills or save a portion of the money for other investments. This is the best option to buy a car.


For business owners who salary themselves to make large purchases, we pay the most insane "interest rate" of all to use our own money.....35% one lump sum to Uncle Sam. So Uncle Sam will charge me 112K for the right to use my money to purchase the 458 (and then 30K in sales tax).

I'd rather let the company lease it. I will save the 112K and only pay sales tax on the portion of the car that I use.

John

 

Thank you

 

+1

Thank You!

The point I was unable to make...

J

 

Must be nice to have such a myopic and judgemental perch to stand on...

J

 

Finesse Auto. Seems a bit self-serving to preach renting F cars when you own an exotic rental car company that charges around $2k a weekend for a 430...doesn't it?

 

I do not know "Finesse Auto's", however, don't allow the "messenger" (whose comments and opinions may be self serving) to detract from the "message".

How many of us have or are tempted to extend ourselves beyond our means? Maybe we want to impress (be honest) or are just frustrated with how "slow" it takes to accumulate wealth and the "dream" seems to always be a bit beyond.

Leasing a car is always a challenge whether it be restricted mileage or legitimate deductions. It really is not a good idea most of the time.

Financing, is not so much a problem because of how much interest is paid (who cares what the total is 10 years from now), but "cash flow". Many obligate themselves beyond their monthly "comfort level" and any unforseen occurrence, can be threatening.

Buying a car for cash is reserved for the few who have enough not to worry.

I have done all three at one time or another, now paying cash.

Finnese Auto does raise an interesting point. How many times have we witnessed 2-3 year old Ferrari's for sale with less than 3,000 miles on them? It would seem for some, an occassional rented ride would do the trick. I never thought of it, but it might actually bve a good idea for someone considering buying or leasing to take a couple of rides and see what happens. It is not for me personally because I can afford the car and at my age "I want what I want when I want it", but there was a time when maybe an occassional ride would have saved big bucks.

Saw these posts and thought I would add my two cents (I have a tendency to do that on Sunday Mornings). Best

 

I fully agree with you. If someone owns their own business and leases the car then they can claim all the lease payments as a business deduction. Clearly this is well worth it and much better option than tying up a lot of capital. I apologize if i was not clear on this...

 

Wasn't not meant to be...if it was I apologize...I brought up the rental as mere comparison to the lease option...As I am sure when we all have searched for used Ferraris or exotics the majority of the vehicles have less than 10,XXX miles for 4 or 5 year old car. If someone leases a vehicle and has a mileage restriction then the car will mostly do 2-3,000 miles a year and sit in a garage.

Thank you!