Brave enough to change a clutch disk? | FerrariChat

Brave enough to change a clutch disk?

Discussion in '348/355' started by 40valve704, Mar 3, 2012.

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  1. 40valve704

    40valve704 Rookie

    Feb 16, 2012
    7
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Ben Cunningham
    As a 28 year old, I have had my 1995 F355 Spider almost a year now and I have recently worn off what little material was left on the clutch disk. I am pretty mechanically inclined and have the ability to do this myself. I would love to know if anyone has undertaken this task before and would be willing to share their knowledge. I have shopped around and being that the lowest quote for this service is around $2200.00, I have the time to explore every option. The prices for a new disk, throw-out bearing, and rebuilding the flywheel have gotten upwards of $10,000.00 with the dealership. On top of that being totally insane, I'd love to know that the job is done right and gain some personal satisfaction. I can have a custom throw-out bearing machined for less than the $3000.00 price tag Ferrari puts on their part. Rebuilding the flywheel would be a fun project and I would be willing to buy some tools to make this happen as well. I know this is no small request to make sure I have every detail to make it perfect. Tickets to the May 2012 Coca Cola 600 are in it for the person who can make this come true.
     
  2. 355rockit

    355rockit Formula Junior

    Dec 1, 2010
    893
    San Marcos, CA
    Full Name:
    Vas
    I would recommend going with the Hills Engineering throw-out bearing. The part is said to not crack like the Ferrari part. I had my flywheel machined and repacked along with replacement of the T/O bearing (using Hills) and seals last year on my 1995 F355. I watched Eric and Bruce do the clutch on their 348 and they made it look easy. There are alot of great posts with pics on FChat with step by step to do the seals and T/O bearing. Next time I need to work on the clutch I most likely will do it myself (with the help of some 'stoogies').

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296274&highlight=t%2Fo+bearing
     
  3. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Read a few of the threads here. Assuming that nothing is broken, a 355 clutch is a pretty easy job.

    Welcome!
     
  4. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,917
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    I have done both t/o bearing and clutch in the last couple of months. Very easy, about a 4 hour job start to finish. Easier than a clutch on just about any other car as you don't have to split the engine and trans. Regarding the flywheel and pressure plate, I checked them when I pulled them apart and both were smooth with no high spots, so I just scuffed them and put it back together with a new disc. I just made sure the pressure plate went back in aligned the same. I used the Hill t/o bearing, it looks to be a very well made piece. On a '95, the collar is a little different so they sell a collar to mate up to the t/o bearing but after measuring, the only difference is the width between the spring pockets so it's not necessary to replace both. Since I had bought it, I put the new collar on but verified the old one works.

    I purchased a stock Valeo disc for around $300 and kept the old one to have rebuilt for future track use.
     
  5. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,620
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    I did the clutch on my 348. It's pretty similar to doing the double disc on my car. Since you are handy with a wrench you'll do fine. Anyhow here is my thread with the how to, when I rebuilt the pressure plate. http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296274
     
  6. F355steve

    F355steve Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2008
    2,089
    Honolulu - Seattle - Okinawa
    Full Name:
    Steve
    I say go for it. Plenty of good advice already given about the process and eliminating as much of the Ferrari tax as possible. Just take lots of pictures and post them up so we can see the process.
     
  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,620
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
  8. spaghetti_jet

    spaghetti_jet Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2005
    947
    Europa
    Full Name:
    Bob
  9. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,232
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Welcome to Ferrari Chat mate. :)

    It's an easy job, have a crack yourself. :)
     
  10. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,917
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    As for step by step - here's how it goes:

    1: turn the kill switch off in the trunk
    2: remove the 2 air boxes in the engine compartment
    3: remove the heat shield over the muffler
    4: jack the rear of the car up
    5: remove thev2 air channels (diffuser panels) under the rear of the car
    6: remove the rear most wheel well panels
    7: disconnect the license plate light connector (on the PS of the car)
    8: remove the rear bumper - there are 2 bolts on each side behind the wheel well panels you just took off and 2 more on each side behind the muffler
    9: remove the muffler heat shield and muffler
    10: disconnect the 2 wires to the starter
    11: Remove all of the nuts holding the bellhousing and clutch/flywheel assembly to the car. You can unbolt and remove the starter either now or after the assembly is off of the car, your choice. Remove the bellhousing assembly.
    12: remove the throwout bearing from the car - this is one small bolt on the bracket right above the t/o bearing. You might have to tug on it pretty hard (I did) once the bracket is off. The clutch fluid will all now come out of the car, so be sure to have a drain pan under it.
    13: Mark the orientation of the pressure plate and flywheel then remove the allen bolts holding the pressure plate. Pry the pressure plate off, shouldn't take too much force to do so.
    14: Inspect the pressure plate and flywheel for uneven wear and any surface roughness. Chances are if the clutch engagement was smooth before the clutch started slipping (and you didn't drive too much with a slipping clutch) and there's no contamination it will be fine.
    15: Put the new clutch disc on the flywheel (making sure the proper side is facing the flywheel) and align it using an alignment tool or 2 sockets - this is how I did it, I just found one socket that fit the flywheel and one that fit the disc. Then I wrapped tape around the flywheel socket until it was a tight fit into the clutch socket and used this to align the clutch. I also lightly scuffed the pressure plate and flywheel using 200 grit sand paper.
    16: Put the pressure plate back on - and tighten the bolts in a star pattern. Remove the alignment tool.
    17: Install an outer seal in the Hill t/o bearing if that's what you're using - I used the seal from my old t/o bearing as it was in perfect shape. If you do this, you have to be careful not to damage it.
    18: Install the t/o bearing - it was a very tight fit due to the new seals so I had to gently tap it on with a rubber mallet. This was probably the most difficult part as I could not get it on by hand and I didn't want to damage any seals.
    19: Install the bellhousing. If it doesn't slip right on (likely), put the car in gear and spin one of the rear tires while pushing on the bellhousing. Once the splines line up properly, it'll pop right on.

    The rest of assembly is the reverse of removal. You will have to bleed the clutch when you're done, but it's similar to bleeding brakes. That's the only part you may need a helper for if you don't have a power bleeder. I used a couple of pieces of cardboard between the grill and bumper to get the gap right when re-installing.
     
  11. 40valve704

    40valve704 Rookie

    Feb 16, 2012
    7
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Ben Cunningham
    #11 40valve704, Mar 4, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
    Thanks to all for the detailed instructions and links to rebuild steps. I will begin to amass the tools I need for the job and order the parts needed. I think I am going to order my parts from http://www.italiancarparts.com/rebuilt_parts/355_360.html I know for a fact that I will have to repack the flywheel but I am uncertain of the TO bearing's condition. Engagement does not feel unfamiliar or rough, so I am praying that it is fine. I will begin the prep work now and keep you guys in the loop. Be prepared for many more questions, as I tend to want to have too much info, rather than not enough. Race tickets will be in my hands in the next few months, so whomever walks me though this the most, be ready to throw back a few Silver Bullets!
     
  12. Aiden

    Aiden Karting

    Mar 13, 2009
    217
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Aiden Naughton
    Is it necessary to have an SD2 for the F1 cars to reset the clutch? If so, does it have to be done prior to driving at all? My clutch is ok at the moment, but had wondered this since I plan on doing the clutch myself as well.
     
  13. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
    4,425
    CT
    Full Name:
    Jay
    No, an SD2 is not needed. I did my F1 clutch 5 yrs ago without an SD2 and it worked great so far. There's threads on FChat on how to do the auto-calibrate.
     
  14. Aiden

    Aiden Karting

    Mar 13, 2009
    217
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Aiden Naughton
    Great, thanks so much. I'll research it.
     
  15. 40valve704

    40valve704 Rookie

    Feb 16, 2012
    7
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Ben Cunningham
    I'm showing my F355 Spider tomorrow in Charlotte and Sunday I will begin the teardown. I will take plenty of pictures and hope I can help future owners with the job. Thanks again guys for all of the links, help, and suggestions.
    -Ben
     
  16. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,620
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    Looking forward to seeing your progress.
     
  17. 3forty8

    3forty8 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2006
    2,713
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Eric
    How do you know for a fact you will have to repack the flywheel? They are generally better at keeping the Kluber grease within their bowels than our 348 versions. Just wondering what symptoms have lead you to that conclusion - rattling, vibration, gear oil infused Kluber grease leaking from the inspection plate or something else?

    Good luck with your project, doing a clutch on these cars is not difficult and it's rewarding to work on your own car.
     
  18. gus355

    gus355 Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2011
    569
    B.C. and WA
    I can hear the flywheel rattle on shutdown so I will need to repack mine, luckily (not really) I now have to either rebuild my T/O bearing or get the Hill one because a leak developed one the winter...
     
  19. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,917
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Does that mean you need to re-pack it? I thought that just kind of went with the territory (ie a feature/consequence of having a dual mass flywheel).
     
  20. bcwawright

    bcwawright F1 Veteran

    Jul 8, 2006
    5,234
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Bruce
  21. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,917
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Wonderful, another noise to listen for :). I'm hoping it's fairly obvious?
     
  22. gus355

    gus355 Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2011
    569
    B.C. and WA
    Is the rattle going to cause any other damage if allowed to continue (ie. don't repack the F/W)
     
  23. 40valve704

    40valve704 Rookie

    Feb 16, 2012
    7
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Ben Cunningham
    I have taken this sucker apart. It's been a chore but I'm at the point of inspection for the clutch assembly. The disk itself it very worn and needs replacement but it also has oil/grease contamination. The crummy thing is that I can't tell where it's coming from. It could be the throw out bearing or the seals underneath the pressure plate but I'm not sure. I'd love to think its not the TO bearing. The pressure plate needs resurfacing and is obviously contaminated. I'm wondering if I should even keep digging into the assembly or keep it torqued down the way it is. It looks like the center bolts holding the pressure plate down have residual fluid on them which has been slung by force, outward. This has gotten partly on the disk itself and all over the pressure plate surface. Any suggestions on what this sounds like and where I should go from here? On a side note, I also took the cap off of the back of the bellhousing to check inside and noticed a thin ring of grease around the inside of the cap which looks like it built up over the past 17 years. Nothing crazy or any metal shavings but I was wondering if i should replace the rear bearing as well, or is this normal? Thanks fellas, you guys have been great so far!
     
  24. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,785
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I am wondering if your triple seals are leaking.
     
  25. 40valve704

    40valve704 Rookie

    Feb 16, 2012
    7
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Ben Cunningham
    Im pretty sure you are correct the more I think about it. I can easily replace those and was planning on doing so as well. Should I even keep digging into the clutch assembly if that is the case?
     

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