430 Scud or 458?

I currently own a GT3 RS Mk I and a CLK63 AMG Black Series and was planning my first F car purchase.

I recently drove a 575 and didn't enjoy it hence this question.

Obviously the 458 is better but more expensive. I will probably track the car not much since I have the GT3 to trash around.

I am enamored by the Scud but I also lust for new technology.

The 458 just looks drop dead gorgeous.

Pete

 

If you already have a GT3 and that's your primary track car I honestly don't see the purpose of the Scud over a 458. Of course, the 458 is more expensive, but it's a much more usable sportscar. Personally, I would never use a Scud for anything else than tracking and sunday drives, because it's so hardcore (very low sound insulation, no carpets etc.) But obviously you know a bit about that from your GT3. A 458 is a brilliant cruiser as well as being a damn fast car around a track. It's not as involving as a Scud IMHO (due to dsg gearbox, and superquick steering, Scud is a bit more 'sticks and bones', simpler gearbox and software), but the tech in it is superb. It's a car of multiple personalities. A Scud would just be a competitor to your GT3, and not as much an addition to your garage. Purchasing a new Ferrari now also gives you a 7-year maintenance plan. The 458 is really a usable sportscar, with all the different suspension settings, front lifter, GPS and MFD's. It's staggering how you can at one moment drive along the highway at low rev's not being intimidated at all, carrying out a normal conversation with your passenger, and in a second, you flip the manettino into RACE and deafen yourself through a tunnel. Obviously it's not a GT-R35, 911 S/Turbo in terms of being an everyday drive, but it really is a step forward in terms of usability and sharpness. If you want a car that you can take on an involving drive, but don't want to worry about city or que driving, than I think the 458 is your beast.

If you have any more questions or things you'd like to know about a Scud/458, I'd be more than happy to help as best I can.

Herman

 

Hi Herman,

I drove a Scud for a short while and really noticed the absence of carpets and sound deadening. Like you said it's a very involving experience. The 458 sounds like the perfect car. How does the 430 compare? Is the premium justified? 430's are so cheap now.

Thanks again.

 

Well, to begin with, I prefer the 458. Where I live, the roads are so poor, driving the Scud you hear the gravel under the car and chip your paint off more than you can hear the engine (well, almost...). I don't own a Scud, but I do believe I would get very tired of owning one to use as a regular sportscar. When you have driven around for a few hours, you really feel it. Not to say, I think it is an amazing car, and matches the performance of a 458 on track. But it's a bit like a modern day F40, not a lot of compromise is made. I also prefer the driving position in the 458, this has nothing to do with the CF seats in the Scud. But I feel the driving position in general on F430's doesn't personally suit me well. I'm 186cm tall and feel than the big steering wheel, positioning of the pedals and the way the seat is mounted gives me to much "bus". The 458 feels a lot more tailored to suit my shape (no matter what seats), but that is of course, a deeply personal matter.

Remember that as Ferrari's get older, they need servicing, 360's are rising in servicing costs now, as a lot of wear and tear, even from regular use, is showing. I work at a local Ferrari, Maserati and Bentley agent, and we see a lot of 360's in now. There are very few F430's in, but as they get older, their time will come. That's why I think it's absolutely amazing that Ferrari supplies their 7 year service program for the 458. To be completely honest, I also believe the general quality of build on a 458 is a notch higher, but that is a natural evolution in the car world.

I believe, that if you can afford to pay the premium, why not? You get a brand new car, exactly as you want it. The F430 in general feels more analog compared to a 458. The 458 is a fantastic piece of engineering, but you notice it too. The steering is so lighting quick, it feels a bit unatural. It doesn't feel like Porsche's new electric steering (fortunately), it's very precise and gives great feedback. But that brute Ferrari 'soul' is perhaps a bit gone. It gears so good, steers so good, responds so good. It's more of a precision instrument, compared to a 430 Scud, which is a bit more alive.

However, don't take my word for all this. It's important that you test for yourself the cars you are considering. As everyone has their own opinion on a car. As your dealer if you perhaps could do a sort of 'back to back' test drive session of a 458 and Scud. Furthermore, if you are considering to purchase a used car, I know that the EU late MY11 and MY12 458's have recieved an ECU tweak to stiffen them up and increase throttle response. Ferrari normally does a few minor tweaks like these each MY, hence a slight percentage increase in price.

Even though I'm based in Europe, would you like me to PM you a copy of the 2012 US 458 Coupé price list? Just PM me your personal mail here and I'll get it sent over to you ASAP.

EDIT: Oh, and don't forget, clutches snap like that on Scuds! On the 458 you can do endless launches, and goof around as much as you want.

Herman

 

I have both. Had the Scud since 09, the 458 since Dec 10.
Until I got the 458 the Scud was the greatest Ferrari I ever had.
Once I got the 458, the Scud felt like two generations older.
I am selling the Scud - keeping the 458.

 

For non track driving I would recommend something other than a scud.

430 or 458 - depends on ur budget more then anything else.

 

I own several cars, and owned other Ferrari's. I love driving my 2011 Turbo S, but after two days of driving the 458, have to admit it is a notch higher. The car is comfortable yet I can "feel" its desire to run (I race cars). The Scud is a refined machine, but basic and raw and not a comfortable car for daily use. It belongs on a race track not at a concert. The "versatility" of the 458 makes it a logical choice, nothwithstanding warranties, etc. Best

 

I feel bad for the owners of 430s who never drove them and have seen the price collapse

 

Exactly right. I had a 997 GT3 and always thought it was in the same area of the car universe as the F430. The 458 is completely different. Go to 3:55 of this vid by EVO and you will see a good demonstration of some of the difference: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqI0WavbHJ4[/ame]

 

The Scuderia (or the Challenge Stradale for that matter) are not really meant for hard track use. These are still both street cars. They have Carbon brakes (Challenge drives swap to steel once they finish with the series and head to NASA racing to save A LOT of money), and the set up on both cars are for the street (IE - understeer/camber/toein). There are a ton of other things about both the Scuderia and Stradale than make them iffy track cars - and if you're interested I can post more.

While the Scuderia might be better suited than say a normal 430 on the track for a day at the track, the car (and Stradale) both really shine as street cars too. The lack of sound insulation is on purpose - and gives the car that rough, loud, bumpy race car feel with out having to go to the track.

I personally love both cars would take a Scuderia over the 458 any day. But I am also on the unofficial wait list for the 458 "Stradale/Scuderia" as well. And my wife promises that if I do get the 458 Scuderia, she will ride in that even less than my Stradale.

 

I was looking for a Scuderia, but with a Ruf RGT and GT3, I just could not rationalize having a third track oriented (hard-core) car. I put a deposit on a 458.

 

I had the Scuderia it's a dynamite car and the prices have come way down, It's raw and I miss the car. It's thunder screaming fast way more mechanical than the 458 like a fine watch.You drive it rather than it drives you.I sold it for the 458.The 458 is much more refined comfort with speed.If I was going to track a car it would be the Scuderia.My only problem with the Scuderia was my wife couldn't stand the car she said it felt like driving in a garbage can noisy, and uncomfortable hard seats with a metal floor.Hope that helps

Jeff

 

You are correct that it is not a car built for the track, it's a street car tailored more towards track use. I'm not saying I oppose the scarcity (or lack) of comfort. But as a usable sportscar, it's falls short compared to a 458. Ofc, if it's a good track car, it will be great on the streets too. However, I do believe if considering a Scud, you do have to consider your local road condition. If you've got miles of miles of paved highway, then great! But bumpy roads, poorly paved surfaces, it really does ruin the experience of such a brute car, which, in it's right element is fantastic. If I was to have a sportscar just for sunday drives and track days, I too would choose a Scud.

 

Looks like we are one of the minorities that would choose the Scuderia over the 458.

Agree with what you said. To add one more extra point, the reason why I would prefer the Scud is because the Scud is more aggresive compared to the 458. One of the main reasons I love about it.

Not that I don't like the 458. It's slowly growing in me. But that is SOMETHING which the Scuderia have and not in the 458.

 

The Scud has a soul...

 

Well, yeah. In a way. For me, 458 is like a tame horse. You treat it well, he treat you well.

Scud on the other hand is like a rare horse waiting for the perfect knight to tame it. You will need to be 'THE ONE' to unleash her true potential. Weird description? LOL!

 

Scud w/o question

 

458 w/o question

 

I agree with rocketman and cpiguy. Seriously, one thing seems to be agreed to by all, the car is rough and noisy and if you have a woman friend/partner/wife, and not other cars to go to and from, you may wish to consider her. If she is irrelevant we may need to start an additional thread addressing "love lost". Best

 

Nah you just drive her car. LOL

 

+1

Its just so versatile. its as fun as a CS handling-wise with the missing power that was nice on the 430 and the GT qualities of the 575. Its just that good.

 

So are the 458 very cheap,and very quite car boring

 

bad move

 

It's hard to imagine you wouldn't thoroughly enjoy the 458....it's just amazing.

 

I think the Scud fans are sounding a little desperate. Not everyone has to agree with your view of the world, there are those that prefer a 458, doesn't make your Scud any less awesome.


Onno