new enzo vs 918 marketing strategies

Jim, I'm not sure why you say things like that. You're working with the people over there. Surely you know they can do some amazing things when they want to. If Luca said do it, it would be done.

I suspect you mean the politics would not allow it?

 

I never heard of an overheated suspension. What does that even mean? Thanks

 

The laws of Physics won't allow it. The Ring that Stephen set the record on no longer exists as the surface is much rougher and bumpier and you can't run at the ride height that ultra high downforce cars need so running one minute faster than Stephen did won't happen today in any car. Red Bull realized this and their fantasy car only ran the GP course.

Ferrari has great engineers and if they spent the money which they won't they could build a great LMP 1 but unless they switched to diesel which they won't they couldn't beat the Audi's. Audi races sports cars because it helps them sell street cars but the volume that Ferrari sells is easily sold without that expenditure so they don't bother and a Ferrari diesel would probably turn off their buyers anyway. PM and other sponsors fully fund their F1 program which helps their image so that works for Ferrari.

The Enzo was not designed for heavy track use and it's fluid shock absorbers can overheat if the car is really pushed on the track or spun which throws a fault and slows the car down until the fluid cools. This happened during the Enzo Ring attempt and to us lapping the Bahrain GP circuit for hours at a reasonably high rate of speed in Enzo based P 4/5. We weren't going flat out but were still able to beat Lewis Hamilton in a Lambo Murcie. (In all fairness be did fry the clutch trying to catch us.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu5UvgIcMOg[/ame]

 

not confirming (nor denying) Napolis' claim about the Enzo shocks overheating, but ... it is indeed conceivable that shocks can overheat.

A wonderful electrical analogy is in order (actually, more than in order, as electrical analogies have been instrumental in not only developing some wonderful suspensions ... but also at least one suspension component as well : the inerter, aka J-damper):

Mass is like capacitance, and stores energy.
Spring is like inductance, and stores energy.
The shock itself (including fluid) is like resistance, and dissipates energy as heat.

Shocks get hot. That's their job

 

I do remember that famous "Supercar Battle", where the MC12 came out as the winner in a challenge which involved a Zonda F, Koenigsegg CCX, Enzo and Carrera GT.
I can confirm the Enzo suffered from suspensions overheating, still achieved a 7:25, which would not be a bad timing if you consider Ferrari NEVER developed ANYTHING at the Ring.
Which also makes me angry since Ferrari has the means and technology to build something superior.

Still, I´m glad to know my good friends at Pagani want to get as close as they can to Bellof´s time Still with the Zonda, although is the R version, in a new "Evo package".

I wonder what the Huayra will realize once it will be "Ring-ready".

Back to Ferrari, one question to mr Glickenhaus: do You think Ferrari is sometimes a bit "snob", I mean, they rely too much on their pedigree and that´s why they ignore developing their cars at the Ring?

 

That didn't seem to bother last years Hankook ferrari which is also a GT2 car, that took the pole position, and best lap. I seem to remember that the wining porsche was also a gt2 car

What I ment was a full factory effort at the N-ring, ala AF corse, with at least two cars with full factory drivers.

Complaining about BoP 2 sentences ago, and this statement don't really go together. Which part of my previus statment you disagree with, or think is a spin. The BMW is a prototype built outside the rules, and is the most BoPed car in the field, which makes the Sebring victory more due to ACO interference then BMW.

I am neither interested nor do I watch BoP racing like Grand Am GT or FIA GT3 since the results have nothing to do with the cars the teams field.

 

Why are we talking about video games now? Not even a simulator, just a GAME.

This thread has derailed long time ago.

 

Good for BMW.

And they lost at Le Mans. So what.

 

Agreed that special edition is a joke however not all car guys care how well Audi, BMW, Porsche do at Le Mans etc. People will want to buy the new enzo (primarily) for emotive reasons not because it will achieve some performance criteria which very few, if any, owners will fully utilise. Isn't that what ownership is all about and isn't that what Mr Pagani is creating with his art?

 

well, there you have it. Testing at the Ring has first and foremost commercial interests, not technical interest. It is just a track. A very long and challenging track, but in the end just a track.

 

That is a little bit too cynical me thinks. No arms were twisted in selling all FXX's and I believe all owners got what they paid for. No matter to what extend Ferrari used the collected data. Allthough the F12 development is said to have gained much data from the FXX/599XX program.

And I have no reason to assume the FXX would not be a very potent enduranceracer. The MC12 did pretty good in that departement and that shares very much of the Enzo DNA.

 

Considering the FXX has more power but the Zonda R is quicker round a track, I'd actually say that the Zonda has a vastly better aerodynamics and chassis.

Ferrari isn't the end all and be all of performance anymore. Pagani has shown that on more than one occasion...

 

I have never seen an FXX and a Zonda go head to head. Untill they are competing in the same raceseries you cannot say anything about their relative performance. To many factors are unknown. And I do know Pagani has yet to develop a proper competition car. In that respect they are still trailing Ferrari by about 65 years.

 

Ferrari lost to Porsche at the 24 Hours of Daytona and your spin is that you don't care about Grand AM or GT3 speaks for itself nicely.

Ferrari lost to BMW at Sebring and your spin is that The rules are unfair to Ferrari.

You want to spin the pathetic crashing into the leading BWM to attempt to try to keep it from winning move the AF Corse non contender made? The one that the FIA fined that driver 10K?

You think the ACO is unfair? This is news? Ford was still able to stomp Ferrari with the ACO being unfair to them. In the Day Enzo was the master of whining about the rules and taking his toys home in a snit when he didn't get his way.

I look forward to your spin on why Ferrari hasn't finished first at a major sports car race for many years.

I really hope a major Ferrari team shows up at this years 24 at The Ring as McLaren, Aston, Lotus, BMW, Porsche, Audi, etc, etc,etc will. Our small single car team will continue to try and do it's best.

 

The car and tire manufactures use the Ring for both reasons. Ferrari benefits from this as well. In the case of the F40 it's tires were developed at the Ring and Pirelli develops the P Zero's that Ferrari uses at the Ring on Pagani's. Michelin, Dunlop, and many other use the Ring for development. There is a large industrial park of manufactures near the Ring for a reason.

 

Where do you want to get?

This is like asking why Porsche has not won anything in single seaters in many years. Most probably because they have not built anything for single seaters since the Footwork-Porsche of 20 years ago.

 

The interesting thing here is that both the 918, the new Enzo, and the McLaren Supercar will be hybrid and the Pagani's won't. Hybrids are being driven by the political pressure of the Green movement and add weight and complexity to supercars. Porsche with it's massive resources was unable to make a hybrid that could finish the 24 at the Ring. They pushed the 918's debut out to a year from September to try and sort these systems. The new Enzo will come late this year and the McLaren this May. It will be very interesting to see how well these systems work for Supercar owners. We've been working on our KERS (F1 "plug and play" system...)for four months and it's been a huge challenge and on a one off race car you can do things that wouldn't work on production vehicles.

Pagani is taking a different route. He's not going Green but is going ultra lightweight with IMO ample HP. This route may appeal more to many FChatters as threads imploring Ferrari to go lighter with fewer electronic aides show. One knock on the road McLaren vs the 458 on FChat is that the McLaren has way too many electronic aides and is less of a "Drivers" car.

The next generation of Hypercars will be an interesting one. I look forward to driving them and seeing what they're like. Personally on the road I like modern Ferrari's but when I drive a Ferrari from the 60ies without any modern systems and much lower weight I like that too.

Something is gained and something is lost in living every day.

 

Totally True but personally I'm more interested in Sports Cars. I realize that other's aren't and Ferrari's F1 success is more important to them.

 

Sorry, this is not a spin, but the truth, I never liked GT3 have been a strong opponent of BoP racing for years, if you don't belive me you can chack my posts at http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7... username arakis.. (for which I am sure you nether care to do, nor do you have time to waste on such trivialities, trust me, I am probably the public enemy no1 to BoP racing series. (main reason: it ruined the excelent competitn between ferrari and porsche in NGT/GT2/GTE racing

again not a spin but the truth, are you denying it

That was an appealing move by Ferrari/AF corese/Bruni, and I as their fan am deeply ashamed of it.

I think they stooped racing in full factory efforts in sports cars in 73. even though a corse clienti built customer 333SP which won 12h of sebring overall 1995/1997/1998. I didn't follow racing back then so I cant really comment about it. All I know is that in 1973 Ferrari pulled all its assets into F1. which has worked nicely for them, and in my opinion was the right choice.

Me too, BTW, I also really like your racing car, and it is amazing to me what you guys accomplished in such a short time, and I wish you all the luck in the world at 24h Nring.. -sorry about the earlier jabs

 

No Problem.

Best

 

Which Ferrari team(s) are you referring to?

 

At Sebring AF Course.

At Daytona Risi

 

Mr. Risi is close personal friend, and i'm a supporter of his team. Suggesting that the level of support provided by Ferrari is on par with the support provided by Porsche (or BMW, for that matter) is not accurate. I'll leave it at that.

 

GTE, on post Nr 88 answered that one.

Regards

 

It´s a pity that Risi Competizione is not racing this year. Do you know what plans they have for the future?