It shocked me too. The dampers are made on heavy steel painted black, rather than the aluminum body Sachs shocks used in the Stradale/Scuderia/F430. I know Sachs shocks are expensive, but there was no justification to switch to lesser shocks with crappy quality. For height adjustment, Beijing West Industries puts a sleeve on the shock, as the shock body is not threaded. I was using my spanners to adjust the 458 ride height, as the nose comes 30mm too high, and the rear 20mm too high, the sleeve started to rotate on the shock body rather than the spring perches on the sleeve. Bad quality glue giving up on the threaded sleeve. I don't know of an aftermarket kit yet, but it is an area of vast improvement. It is sad that cars like the Viper and GT3 at 1/3 the price of the 458 come with quality shocks (KW and Bilstein), the recently announced 5th generation Viper is going to have Bilstein Damptronics (like all the GT2/GT3 since 2007), while the 458 carries the heavy and low quality units. The other problem is that the stability controls apply pressure to the rear brakes to help dynamic controls, and there is also preload on the brakes during deceleration (something introduced by BMW and Mercedes to improve emergency braking). Well, there is substantial wear on the brakes, the car eats the rear pads. Another cost cutting measure was the switch from Brembo brake pads using Pagid compound to Textar. Textar cannot even produce race compound brake pads, they are not at the top of performance brake manufacturers such as: Pagid, Endless, Performance Friction, Ferodo. One of the problems I see is the media and owners praising mediocrity, this won't send the message to the factory to produce the car with better quality parts. The 458 engine is a gem, and genuinely the only truly factory essential part in the car, a 4.5 V8 with 9,000 redline, the body design is functional, transmission is improving but still needs 2 more years of development, brakes/suspension are an easy fix. Fortunately, the improvements are very likely going to get packaged in the performance version due in 2014.
+1 I got both SLS and Scud and as of today both are collecting dust; IMHO, 458 is the best of both worlds.
good point...I would say "scud and early 612" vs new 458, but I'm sure there are lots of options for how to spend the extra $120k or so price diff...
Amazed you like the 599 that much. Drove the 599 and 458 back to back at Fiorano on various Pilota courses and the unanimous opinion of participants and instructors was that the 458 was superior in every department and made the 599 feel from a different generation.
For street use, just for street use (in U.S.). For track day use, the 599 is way too heavy, heavier than a 458 Italia which is already too heavy. For track day use: Scuderia and Stradale, nimble, light and fun cars at a track day.
He does indeed. In any Scud/CS or track related thread I pay extra attention to his posts. The man knows his stuff. Every post I read makes me want to sell my 430 coupe and buy a Scud.
Are you saying that the magneterhorlogical suspension system is built around Chinese shocks? This seems ridiculous seeing as how all manufacturers are competing with one another to produce the finest handling cars and when comparing with Mclaren and their all singing and dancing setup, why would they not specify the best unless other suppliers don't produce a comparable product? Not doubting what you say, just amazed.
Very interesting and informative post. Friend of mine has a 458 which has seen many, many track laps and the car has held up pretty well, rear brakes were an issue as you mentioned but turn the TC off and this isnt an issue any longer. It has however been through three sets of brake pads and is now on its second set of brake discs. I wonder if better brake pads were used if the wear patter would be any better? Do you have any idea of 458 Challenge brake pads would work on the road going 458? Thanks again for the informative post!
Correct, CST-Off reduces brakes wear, but still the 458 wears the brakes a little too much. The main problem is cooling, no air ducts and temperature gets too high. Then there is the extra weight, and finally the extra power that forces the car to slow down from higher speeds than other cars. 458 Challenge pads are easier on the CCB rotors for track use, and not made by Textar, they are made by Pagid Racing (same supplier of Porsche MotorSports, and plenty other race teams). They are also cheaper than the street pads. The Challenge pads would extend the life of the CCB rotors with track use, and reduce the life of the rotors with street use, so it is a matter of switching pads accordingly. Zip tie the brake wear sensors to the wheel hubs, as they are annoying to re-install, and useless in my opinion.
BWI or Beijing West Industries. The Chinese company that bought the remains of Delphi for chump change during the Government Motors sellout in this administration, and moved the operations to the Asian mainland (cheap labor, no human rights, no animal rights, no environment responsibility, and everything else that guarantees $0.25/hours labor). Yes, they make the dampers for the 458 Italia.
One of the improvements made in the 458 Italia is suspension travel, plenty of it, more than 4" compared to less than 2" in the F430. Rake as I measured in two 458 is a little flat, so the front can ride 10mm lower and reduce the tendency to understeer the Italia has in slow corners. The 458 Italia is well planted, a little too much indeed, minor tuning (alignment, ride height and corner balance) can make it even faster. The 458 is a great platform, weight problems are being resolved, currently anyone can order a 458 Italia over 100 lbs lighter than the standard car, and things will get better with the track-day version. Brake issues are easy to be resolved. Suspension issues are easy to be resolved. The engine with the 9,000 rpm redline, DFI and 4.5L is perfection. The transmission is being tested in Racing, and adding it to the F12 and FF will make it better as years go by.
Rad, is the 100 LBS of weight savings from the Carbon Bucket Seats and the Forged Wheels? I believe those are the only two weight saving options, but please confirm. Thanks.
There is a lot more. The carbon fiber interior and exterior options are big weight saving items. Once out of the showroom, there is another 100 lbs in between forged 19" wheels, exhaust system and a Li-Ion battery. With these 200 lbs reduced and no fuel, the car weighs as much as the U.S. 2007 GT3 RS with no fuel, and just 24 lbs more than the 3.8 RS.
F430GT shuts it down once again, I love how the 458 users who never drove a scud just make up random remarks (like scud to firm) to suggest the 458 is a better car but F430GT comes along with cold hard facts and shuts it down. Thanks F430GT for taking the time to help put this topic in the right direction. Also for fact, it seems the Scuderia cost Ferrari more to produce than the 458 due to the new MSRP when new, comparing todays resale value is not a good indication. 458 msrp 229 Scud was 290. As F430GT pointed out many things have been cut back on the 458 like suspension and brakes. In the end it's perfectly normal for 458 users to defend the car and Scud owners to defend. I think they are both great cars but it's pretty clear the Scud is more tuned special car than a 458.
Is the Scud a special tuned car? DUH! Is the 458 a better all around city driving car? DUH! Why don't we compare the Chevy Volt to the Scud? Because they are apples and oranges. There's no need to "defend" either. They are built for different purposes. For me, I would not own a Scud. Yes, I have driven one and I still prefer the 458. And I can tell you the 458 is better in almost every way to an F430 -- and that's good enough for me and a lot of people who own them.
I don't think a comparison between the Scud and 458 is logical. The cars are clearly built for different purposes (and types of buyers). The real comp will be whenever they create the "458 scud" or whatever they'll call it. For now, enjoy what ya got.
bdelp, I agree I would take a 458 over a f430, but the OP was comparing a 458 to a scud?? So why you taking about a f430? The Scud is a different animal. In regards to comparing apples and oranges, I am just going with the flow here I never started the thread? we are here to chat about F-cars and the topic was 458 vs Scuderia. so you comment of comparing volts to scud or apples and oranges I fail to see the logic. I could be the odd ball here but when I think of purchasing a Ferrari I want pure sport, so to me the most important aspect of owning a f-car is more sport than luxury, as it has been pointed out if you want luxury look at Benz, BMW, Lexus etc all will offer more luxury for a better dollar, In regards to daily driver without a doubt a scud is easily and very capable of being a daily driver, anyone who thinks other wise is in denial. Again 458 and Scud both amazing cars, I just think the Scud is nicer. To each their own. I don't mind 458 users feeling their car is better just like it shouldn't matter Scud owners think theirs is better. I just pointed out the fact and like how F430GT uses facts to back up his claims while everyone else goes with emotion. Bdelp its all good bro you have a nice car.
I don't get into the "bashing" of one owner's car over another. Let's just say that having driven both, they are two different cups of tea and I like Brand B over Brand A. I'm not going to argue these "facts" either. My point is I don't care of the shocks were built in Bangladesh if the car works great. But I find the "Chinese" reference rather disturbing though -- I think it's uncalled for-- but that's my opinion. No one complains their Iphone or Sony 55" TV is "cheap quality" because it's made in China, do they? Some of us here actually work in China. Bashing a part because of the country it was made in is totally unfair IMO. It's a GM part. Where they make it is none of my concern as long as it works.
But lets not forget the topic of this discussion after all is 458 vs Scuderia. Yes they are different animals and a more apt comparison will be when the 458 Racing version comes out. I again test drove the Scuderia this saturday for the second time after trying one last year and I have to admit: For people who want a pure sports car (which is why we buy Ferrari after all) I think the 430 Scuderia wins. Its more aggressive and you feel more alive in the car. Another point to like about 430 scuderia: Its not in production and even if we take the high estimate of roughly 2'000 pieces built, it is fair to say over the long run, the Scuderia will hold its value better than the 458. I like that aspect aswell.
