Loose Timing Belt | FerrariChat

Loose Timing Belt

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by alex360S, Mar 26, 2012.

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  1. alex360S

    alex360S Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2006
    324
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Was doing oil changes on my brother's 360 and inspected the timing belts from underneath. Noticed that the one on the left bank was loose. I was able to push the bottom part of the belt at least 1/2" up. Is that normal? Belts were changed last November at the dealer. Dealer states that depending on the position if the motor, the tensioner might be more loose than normal. I don't find this normal seeing that the shop manual calls for tensioning with a Clevis meter and I don't see how you can get any frequency off of a flappy belt. Please tell me if any if this makes sense.

    Thanks
     
  2. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    The belts stretch a little when first run (this is why they should never be re-tensioned). Depending on how the engine stopped, you might feel a little slack on the belt.

    I can't tell you if what you observed is okay or not.
     
  3. alex360S

    alex360S Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2006
    324
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Thanks for the reply. I cannot see how any slack is normal. Right bank was nice and tight but left side had a 1/2"-3/4" deflection on the bottom side.
     
  4. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,416
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    Alex,

    You asked a question and got a good answer from a real pro. Why would you not believe it? What else could we tell you ?
     
  5. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 26, 2006
    3,664
    New England
    Full Name:
    David Feinberg
    My thoughts, exactly
     
  6. DonJuan348

    DonJuan348 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Aug 5, 2008
    4,442
    Taxing Jersey
    During an oil change, how were you able to access and or see the belts? You would have to remove the under tray and the belt covers .
     
  7. alex360S

    alex360S Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2006
    324
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Ok I believe it. Just thought belts stayed tight all the time. Thanks .
     
  8. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    16,456
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    Alex it seems that one bank will have some laxity while the other is tense. Turning crank will then reverse the dynamic. how long since last belt change?
     
  9. alex360S

    alex360S Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2006
    324
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Car was on a lift in my garage with the under tray off. On the Modena no central cover so the bottom part of the belts are quite visible without removing the timing covers. The 360 Spider on the other hand has a central cover attached to the bottom of the timing covers rendering the belts completely unaccessible.
     
  10. alex360S

    alex360S Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2006
    324
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Alex
    I believe belts were done November 2010 and car sat in storage from then until April 2011 and was used all last summer. Car just came out of storage and is being prepped for the summer season.
     
  11. DonJuan348

    DonJuan348 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Aug 5, 2008
    4,442
    Taxing Jersey
    My Modena has the cover. I had the under tray off on Saturday .I would have liked to see the condition of my belts .
     
  12. alex360S

    alex360S Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2006
    324
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Alex
    I was talking about the upper and lower deadening shield found only on the Spider, parts #184949 and 184950. If you have one, it is definitely not part of the parts diagram regarding the timing tappets and shields for the 360 Modena.
     
  13. ndg.performance

    Mar 12, 2012
    25
    Full Name:
    Abdullah
    You should start the car and keep it for some time then check the belt if it stell the same that's meen there is something wrong with the tensioner and you got to change it otherwise its going to do a lot of damages to the engine You don't want to know about.
     
  14. stevel48

    stevel48 Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2005
    1,998
    Metrowest MA
    Full Name:
    Steve (85 308 Owner)
    #14 stevel48, Mar 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Alex,

    I had the same question 2 years ago. The belt tension really does vary based upon where the engine is in its rotation. Why does it behave this way? Tension varies because of the cam rotation and it being on the exhaust or intake position. Think of the cam lobe engaging the shim bucket and then passing its apex when it pushes the shim bucket/valve down and then rolling off of the shim bucket. Uphill vs downhill.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Thats some interesting advise.
     
  16. alex360S

    alex360S Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2006
    324
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Thanks for the reply Steve. Love the pic. BTW car was towed to dealer as a precaution and tension was verified by tech. He states that the tension is in spec at 211hz which happens to be right in the middle of the recommended 190-220hz range called for in the WSM. I guess it was panicking on my part. I just didn't want anything to go wrong with my brother's engine. This tech stuff is what attracted me to this hobby and I love to learn but sometimes I might jump the gun on my findings. I guess it's all part of the learning process. When measuring the tension on a cambelt, do they add up the tension on the upper and lower part of the belt to come up with the required tension?
     
  17. maxer

    maxer Rookie

    Oct 19, 2010
    23
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Skip Miller
    Did the tech test with the Clevis/ frequency meter or did he have any trick way to check belt tension? I am very surprised that the belt in position can have 1/2 to 3/4 push, and I do understand the different pressure at different parts of the rotation cycle

    Thanks
     
  18. JohnnyS

    JohnnyS F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 19, 2006
    15,271
    Illinois
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    John
    I did my cam belts this past winter and had the same situation. However, I did the Ferrari procedure for setting the tension and they still had some tension play. I set the tension 2x and the situation was the same each time. So, I believe a little play in the belt on the longer spans is normal. If the tension is too tight I would think that could lead to premature failure.
     
  19. Mac360nqport

    Mac360nqport Rookie

    Jul 25, 2011
    4
    Whats it mean
     
  20. alex360S

    alex360S Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2006
    324
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Dealer confirmed that tension was within spec at 211hz. I guess it was pre-mature panic. Live and learn they say.
     
  21. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    16,456
    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    So interesting to me the ultrasonic meter. On my porsche 928 and 924 I used to tension it until I could just twist the belt 90 degrees. Never had any problems...
     
  22. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    802
    Athens, Greece
    Full Name:
    MD
    Last time we checked with my mechanic we came to the following conclusion :
    When we opened the cambelt covers to inspect the cambelts, the driver's side cambelt was very loose...
    I thought that my tensioner was bad and that I should replace it...
    My mechanic explained to me that when you switch off the engine because of the momentum it slighlty rotates on the reverse direction and this causes the belts to become loose...
    As soon as he rotated manually the crankshaft the belts tightened up...

    Therefore, make sure that you rotate manually the crankshaft to check the correct tension of the belts !!!
     
  23. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    sorry to bring this up again, if I got a tight belt (tigher than spec), is it going to
    make some squeaky noise?
     
  24. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    802
    Athens, Greece
    Full Name:
    MD
    Yes, that is correct !
     
  25. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,416
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I saw your posting on the other sub forum about your timing squeak. It seems you have already ruled out belt tension as an issue with your latest frequency test. The fact that it quiets down when you spray it with water for a bit is a clue.

    I suggest this: make the belts at the low end of the tension frequency spec and see if that helps you. If not, replace the belts with belts of very new date codes bought from the factory dealer.
     

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