How do you define "professional racing driver"?

Derive income/living from driving. There are relatively few who do so.

Even at the F1 level, drivers "bring" money to the teams, but this is in the form of sponsorship dollars. Not the same as writing a check yourself to buy a ride, IMO.

CW

 

Agreed, but also agree that if you bring sponsor money you are a pro (not counting using your own business to sponsor yourself). Starts to get murky with family money supporting young talent or family dynasty drivers like Andrettis, Unsers, Villeneuve, etc, but I view many of them as pros if/when they become what appears to be self-sustaining.

 

The term defines itself? Racing must be the profession of a professional racing driver.

I have raced in a couple "pro" series and won a little, very little, money. I am not a pro. If I spend a year in the Rolex series on my own nickel, I am still not a pro. If the company I own writes sponsorship checks to a race team so that I can race, and all the team cars have my company's name on them, I am still not a pro. If I buy a prototype and co-drive with A J Allmendinger and Justin Wilson, and we win the 24 Hour, I am still not a pro. I will never be a pro.

I like to reserve the term for people who, from an early age, make the hard, unusual sacrifices it takes to make a living in a sport. I view the term as a compliment.

 

+1,000

Less than 20... Lots of barter and contractual obligations to be there were going on.

 

Yes, loan sharks (obvious reference) and scuba divers (those who go swimming in Enzos) are not pros.

 

how about actors? Paul Newman or Steve McQueen?

how about wealthy business men? duncan dayton or benton bryan?

how about rock stars? Slim Bourgood (sp?)

 

Talented amateurs.

And, there's nothing wrong with that.

CW

 

i understand...but all racing in big time sactioned events! all having factory support or affiliations.

and btw...i used the term rock star improperly...the drummer for abba may not qualify as a rock star

 

Oh, sure. PN and SM were certainly good drivers, and possibly might even have been able to make it as paid professionals if that had been their chosen career path. A little good publicity for the factory, given their celebrity, may have factored in, though. And, I don't look down on them (or anyone else) who do something else to put bread on the table and happen to be good drivers. But, I'll wager that neither PN or SM ever referred to themselves as pros, either. Same probably goes for guys like the self-deprecating Patrick Dempsey. Racing in a pro series doesn't necessarily make one a pro in my book. And, I've known a few guys who bought a ride and declared themselves pros, yet couldn't make it around the parking lot without hitting something or getting lost. They just don't pass the sniff test.

What goes for PN and SM probably also goes for owner/drivers like Dayton, Bryan or Field. They enjoy it. They have the means. And, they're good enough to go out there and not kill themselves or anyone else. However, I doubt their laptimes are in the same realm as an ex-F1 driver's are. Again, this takes nothing from them, and I'd love to be in their shoes.

And, Brian Johnson (AC/DC) just drove at the Daytona 24H. I think he qualifies as a true rock star, but he wouldn't call himself a pro, either.

CW

 

I'd say you have to derive more than half of your income as a result of racing, to be considered a pro.

Having seen him race, I'd say Paul Newman could legitimately claim to have raced "at a professional level" (assuming that at least a few of the people he beat in competition were making a living from racing). Though reading this thread, it sounds like a lot of folks who look like pros out there aren't getting paid for it.

I was never a pro in any sense of the word. Though, like most racers I sunk every dollar and every spare minute of my life into racing, for the years when I was racing (~6 years)

 

Half of your income? If you're not losing any money racing, I'd call you a pro. That's no funny business - ie your dad's company 'sponsors' your race team or buys you a drive, etc.

 

Jon Field...uh oh. Should we start a thread on his history of shenanigans?

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_5195270

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developingnow/2011/08/17/cadillac-ranch-under-investigation/

Just kidding.

As to question about being a pro: Until the people on the other end of your phone are consistently offering cash, airfare, hotel, rental car & meals to drive their race car...you're not a pro.

 

I should have been more clear. I was generally referring more to Ted, the heir of the Marshall Field department store family. He was the principal behind the Interscope racing team, IIRC. And, he's still doing some driving alongside Jon.

But, perhaps I shouldn't have included him. I didn't mention the Paul's.

CW

 

How about:

'If someone thinks enough of your talent to call you up to drive even if you cannot bring a dime with you'?

Aside from that, it appears you are a 'pro' if you get an IRS form 1099 for doing it.

 

Cool. It means one of the biggest road racing events in the US is by very large majority, amateurs.

 

Great post Rob.

 

There was once a stat in the uk that of more than 20 000 competition license holders fewer than 20 made their living solely from racing

 

Soooo... You think this is an American phenomenon only? It's the same everywhere. Always has been. Always will be.

I have held Pro Licensees. I have in fact derived (very little) income from racing. I'm not a pro at all. I have had the good fortune to drive with, and race against several who are pro's.

I'd say that if you earn a living at it you are a pro. Adding the "someone calls you to fill a seat" is probably a good call as well.

The guys are middle aged to old because that's who can afford it.

Having done some of both though, the idea that the average spec miata driver is going to dominate ALMS, GA or whatever series... Well I would have to respectfully disagree. Right now I'm racing in Continental Challenge in Grand Am. The teams and drivers are very, very deep in terms of talent and prep.

 

What if you're not American?