Official Countach Value Thread

I can only support ROY, I'd never value a car for somebody else since it's in the eye of the buyer which price tag he accepts.

Like my Mimran QV, the car is a strong driver with already some age and 64t Kilometers on the Odo, from this perspective nothing special and doesn't justify a high price tag.
Otoh it's a strong driver with a special history and I don't need to part, it's my favorite Countach version, my favorite colour and it has a special history.
I would think about parting if someone comes around the corner and throw 300k CHF on the table, but for less why should I part?
I would have them the issue to find something to replace it which is also costly and if this is as satisfying... thanks exactly what I discussed with the owner of #1121030 when he got an offer.

 

So are you thinking about maybe selling your QV Raymond?

 

not really, but if somebody throws enough money onto the table everything is discussable...

 

Raymond and Roy, you guys just make the point that high priced car are not "really in the market" but are advertised just in case someone wants it that high.

I think the argument made in the thread is not a personal one but in general if too many "opportunity sellers" are advertising along the real seller, then the market of that model gets a bad perception of not being stable.

I have been looking at BB512 lately. I dont want to do the Ferrari market vs the lambo market but I am amazed to see that indeed it is much tigher and orderly at about $100K to $150K. Not only prices are consistant but also they seem real. To me that brings comfort for a serious would be buyer.

I could also advertised my car at $280K. Heck lets round it to $300K. Anybody can show up with cash. No PPI nor questions allowed and the buy inspection is limited to 15mn with no driving allowed as my car is mint and I dont want the assle. I just want the cash as I am entitled to as the seller..
Peter does the same but prices it at $500K. Let bring Ken QV who does his at $295K because he want his gone before mine.
We are not a real seller but the cars are on the market. Let say Kurt has to sell but is a real seller and does his QV at $95K.
Kurt's QV may fly off the shelves but how as a buyer how do you gauge if Tony's price was real or a fire sale for a POS or just a great bargain?
I'll be honest. If today I would be in the market, I would not buy a CT due to price volatilty and I'll go to a BB512. I always loved that car and I know it would not go from $200K to $100K in 24h..

Just my 2 cents to try to explain the issue not from a seller viewpoint (i would get $300K!) but from a market observer viewpoint. that situation just freezes the CT market..
I think that is the downside. But of course the world does not end because of that. We just are debating what I think are great points.

 

If you really were in the market for a CT ever, you would have to sift through what real and what is fantasy. THere is a market price, and those Countachs that fall way outside of it dont sell.

But, I really dont understand the debate. Sellers want as much as they can sell whatever they are selling, and buyers want that same thing for a little as the seller will take. This principle goes back before the Countach(lol).

I have to side with Roy.

 

I just don't understand this point. Any car of any make has sellers that are too ambitious and even out to lunch. Seller motivation is a factor as well. I for one, would not sell my Countach unless I couldn't refuse. Any car has sellers that are way overpriced - Ferrari, Aston, Maserati - ALL OF THEM. If someone is deterred from buying a Lambo because of that they were not genuinely in the hunt to begin with.

There will be a time when the values are significantly higher than they are now, but not if this attitude persists. If a new buyer comes into the market and all the cars are priced the same, then guess what - that is the market price for the car - whether it is high or not. That buyer has a choice - buy a car at market or not. The sellers that advertise their cars for higher than the others and get it, determine the market as much as those that keep the prices the same year after year. Every Auction is a good indicator of that.

 

AHHH SOmeone that proves my point EXACTLY while coming in the back door.

You are 110% right..and you should go buy a Ferrari then..after all they were produced at what, about 25 Ferrari's t 1 Lamborghini for the Countach cars we are speaking abut..? SO ONLY basic math shows there WILL always be more F cars available and MORE sellers that wish to part with the...and when they do..OF COURSE they will have to be in the "Market" range to move their car.

On the other hand a Lambo owner ( and I am not trying to say it is better or worst then a Ferrari..they are all great cars) is a holder of a far more LESS produced car of possible, to many, of greater distinction then a IMO "mass" produced ferrari...so OF course he, the owner has GREATER impact and control over the sale of his less produced and available car...which IMO makes it a harder car to price as there are just not that many that trade and part with them as often as a Ferrari.

We can say the same thing for anight out at a steak house..its the SAME thing:

You have a choice..

"Outback"..multiple locations, good food and a to many "reasonable price..

OR

"Mortons Steakhouse...few obscure locations, less menu selection and price is based on what is available at the time...

As there are different Steak lovers..and ones willing to up it to the what they think is the best..there are different car owners/buyers that were willing to up it as well...

We can scream and debate till the cows come home, the FACT remains..NO SELLER or owner is going to price his/her car because a "Buyer" tells him so.."look" at this bi-weeekly" rag that says what your car is worth..my answer "Fine" go buy that one..there is no LAW that requires you to buy mine..

Of course there is ALWAYS an exception to the rule, and when this happens, those cars are the ones that are snapped up in haste from Multiple buyers waiting to pounce on the sale..BUT I guarantee you, those buyers that were in the right place at the right time, SURE as heck would not turn arouund and re-sale their car for what they paid for it..of course not. So, I for one, do not and will not let ALL the possible buyers try to corral me into a sale price that benefits them..after all, they dont have the car, I do.

 

LOL on the Impala 427 SS..yes..but FYI, it has now been committed to Mecum Auto Auction in May at their SPring Auction event in Indy, along with three other cars I am bringing there...AND yes, all at "No reserve"..BUT again, they made some 1900 of these cars in 3 years, not only approx 600 over about 15 years..so it WILL bring what the BUYERS say as they will control the sale..and I as a seller am ready to let it go..

Maybe it hits out of the park, maybe not..I can tell you if it does..it WOULD Not be the first time I had a car for sale and advertised for months that SELLS higher then what it could have been bought for off of my site at Auction....it ONLY takes two buyers, that hopefully have each been consuming large amounts of Bozze and like to be on TV!

 

I know you had a hard time looking for it and I'd love hearing about the details. When I shopped for mine, I had a good experience with sellers and asking prices were in a tight range overall. My experience was very pleasant and the only issue was on one ppi of one where the ppi work ended up screwing the car that was running great prior to it and made the cat overheated after. I had to pay $1500 to get the issue fixed for the seller who graciously let us do the complete ppi . But that was a one time freak event. The process of searching and buying was pelasurable.
That was 2001. I could find myself knowing what the value was. Now, if i were to do the same today, frankly i'll be afraid and may not buy a countach.

It seems that Roy gave you a very fair deal on your QV but from what I see that was the only fair deal out there (exclusing the anniv cars which are priced in line). Roy gives fair deals on cars he intend to sell.. he said so himself. Roy always seem to have great car anyway, like that diablo GT... I'd love that one...
Of course anybody can ask what they want etc... The point discussed is really about the impact of wild speculative prices on that market.

 

just so we frame the discussion, the "range " should include a price progression of course. What we are talking about is the currently wild expectation of over $300K for a 5000s or some over $250K or more for a DD today. We are not arguing about a slightly nominal price increase of 10% or even 20% here...
Besides ther are over 2000 countach made. So we are not dealing with F GTOs neither.
Even the LP400 were 150 cars. Hardly a "rare" car from a collector viewpoint.
I also want to point out the Maserati Bora. Very few made but again price is "within a range" typically. I have not seen a Bora owner asking $250K for his...

Lets be clear that this is not a discussion about cornering owners to sell at a discounted price. I am an owner after all, but rather a discussion about making a fluid market that moves in step with the auto market in general so cars that are not really for sale dont sit for years.
A DD QV would be "well sold" today at $190K. Would i sell mine at that price ? NO!!! Would I fish for someone who would give me $250K? NO!! what for ? I am not a dealer and I don't have to advertise for other specific reasons that sell.

 

All good points..so lets try a REAL LIFE test here..what WE know has exchanged or traded recently..

I sold my 1987 Black FI to Jason "Topcarbon" recently. I am not dis-closing the sale price, that is up to him the new owner...I thnk he was in the right place at the right time...

SO, let me ask this..Jason...will you sell you car today for what you paid for it..lets just for the sake of argument even add 5% to the recent selling price..???

The other thing we, or I can do...is ALL the current owners out there....or anyone wanting to sell their car (Lambos only-no desire for a Ferrari)...please call me 24/7, I will pay a "corrected" market price to make ALL the other cars come into line and we can all be happy that multiple cars sold for less then current owners are asking...??? Hey that works for me.......I have checkbook and or wire funds in hand and my phone is on...HOWS first???

 

Obviously you never tried to find one.

 

EXACTLY! Maybe what 100 left..? I know of ONLY 2 on the market right now...

AND IMO YES 150 total production IS a rare run..

 

it IS rare (imo)
good luck finding one and even more one at the right price now...


i think even a 400S is a rare car and they built more of those

 

Exactly.

 

Jeff, I operate in the Ferrari & Porsche market too, and yes both markets have cars priced above normal. But we are talking 10%, maybe 20%.

But there is NO market where you see cars priced at 75-100% over the odds besides the Lamborghini Countach market.

 

Prior to buying you seemed to understand it very well. See prior posts.

 

Well-stated.

 

So true.

 

Good to see you concur.

 

No, I'm happy with my deal, and to find another is not worth the hassle. Plus, I don't know if I could find another. I am happy with my purchase.

really? So when you presented the anniversary car at a sugnificant mark up on the market and my price, did I pretend to be interested? Give me a break. I had to sift through what I perceived to be real and what wasn't.

 

Countach qv was comparing the Countach with a Ferrari 512BB.

Approx. 929 BB 512s were produced, and 1,007 BBi 512s.

This means that they are approx. 1 for 1 with the Countach.

Not 25 to 1.

 

Yes really. You make my point for me. You endured considerable frustration along the way and you stated as such right here.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141315689&postcount=544

"Just to interject, As a Countach consumer, one that does not have one yet, and to differentiate between those that have one already, I am totally frustrated with the current market, whats available, and whole process of buying. As many people out here in the market place that have been helpful, this is a complete pain in the ass."

And elsewhere too.

There was no markup on the Anniversary I presented to you (the black one). Its price was withing the standard range for a fully-serviced example. It was simply beyond what you wanted to spend.