DYI in a Ferrari (advice)

It depends. Some people have the skills, ability, and desire to maintain thier own cars. Some only have the latter.

I maintain my own car, and although I do not plan to sell it, I have kept detailed records of the work I have done. Written description, photos, reciepts for all parts, as well as any old worn out parts that were removed from the car or replaced.

If they can't show you what was done and prove how it was done, I would find another car. I think that holds true regardless if it was service by an individual or a dealer/specialist.

 

I have far more trust in 'some' of the diy folks here on F-chat than 'some' of the so called professionals. It depends on the particular individual and the particular shop that is being compared.

Do a complete PPI with a known, very good shop and if all looks good - go for it without question or hesitation. If the car was hacked - a good shop will spot it in a heartbeat.

Rgds,
Vincenzo

 

Both perfect points. I do most of my own and have kept all receipts for parts purchased and also have many photos. I also have a log book of when services were performed or individual parts replaced.

If looking over it carefully you may be able to see signs of how well done it was. Is silicone coming out of the mating surfaces. Does the engine bay look well sorted and well taken care of. How many oil leaks and where and how bad and did the owner try to fix them? The PPI should provide some insight. Just let the tech doing the PPI know your concerns.

It will come down to condition. When you say the cams weren't aligned right does the car not run properly? Or are you saying the person just didn't degree the cams and put them back the way they were. Describe the problem with the car. If the car was taken apart and no longer runs that is a whole different ballgame.

 

It seems to me that the several hundreds of dollars spent on a PPI,(and I mean by a PROVEN proffessional) is the smallest expense in owning any exoctic. It certainly paid off for me 12 years ago..."Man's got to know his limitations" (by Dirty Harry..Magnum Force).

 

Agreed, the best investment you will ever make is paying for a proper PPI before you buy.

 

The way I see it when you repair a car, the repair should be of the quality that it cannot be discerned from the way the factory did it. I.e. a perfect repair.

I fix my car and when I repair something, it is done right. i.e perfect. When I bought my car it had been "fixed" by people with desire I'm sure (and I'm not so sure about that) and no ability. Thus, I've been perfectionizing the car over the last year.

There are repairs that can be done reliably at home. Oil changes, brake repairs, engein components etc.
Then there are repairs that I would prefer be done by a specialist such as Clutches, timing belt replacement etc. Where you stand on this is up to you.

You will see how the car has been repaired in the past by inspection. Electrical tape and missing parts are easy to spot. Extra visible adhesive, scraggly parts mean an inattentive repair. If the car looks really good, it has been loved and maintained well. An inspection should tell.

 

Remember.

A PPI can tell you what IS BROKEN.

It cannot always tell you what ia ABOUT TO BREAK.


Too many future owners think the PPI can tell you what is about to break with certanty. That is why MOST really good INDIES (they are usually Ferrari Trained as well) will NOT DO PPIs any longer.

The risk is too high.



Someday I believe the PPI n modern exotics will go the way of the dinosaur. Try to do a PPI on a Model T.

 

Nobody should expect a PPI to tell them what will break in the future. If they do, then they have unrealistic expectations. A good shop will make sure this is understood. I have inspected many cars that don't even need to be put on the lift to give the thumbs down. The people bringing them in ususally think they have just found a smoking deal.

A PPI is an inspection that can reveal shoddy past workmanship, used car lot shenanigans, accident damage, past owner abuse, and general present condition of wear items. They are not perfect. But, they are far more valuable than not having one at all.

They can also make ALL the difference in a future owners enjoyment of the Ferrari experience.

All too often we end up doing the other kind of PPI (Post Purchase Inspection)

 

As to the original subject.

The DIYers that really know what they are doing are the exception. Rare, but they do exist. As a rule, most DIYers have had many losing battles or phyrric victories with their cars. And, these are the cars that one should absolutely stay away from.

 

How do you know the cams are not properly aligned?

 

+1

 

As I told Wade (308nut) at the Charlotte show....my loyalties are to my garage and then his I love the maintenance and repair work and learn much from many of the savvy folks in here as I go. If anything gets really hair-raising or beyond my equipment, off it will go to the shop.

 

As a DIY person, I object. I just spent a lot of time correcting "professional' work done badly on my 550. I work slowly, but my hourly rate is affordable to me.

 

My mistake. I just re-read the title of the post and I would say you should never DYI (Do Yourself In) in a Ferrari.

 

This is a classic thread where the PPI was worhtless
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358440

I have owned ferraris for around 30 years and I have never used a professional. When I buy a used car I assume I am going to have to go through it. I fix my Ferrari to my standard because it is my car. It is not about cheap but a larbor of love of the hobby. I never buy a car thinking about selling it later. I buy a car and assume it is worth zero by the time I use it up. That goes for racecars I have owned too.

 

I have owned a lot of cars, my first Ferrari now. I never use a professional, mostly because of the standard of what I consider good work vs a shop. There are some absolutely phenomenal Ferrari shops as seen here all the time, but for the average shop doing average work on the average car... not even close to my expectations.

Knowing the car more intimately gives you a sense of understanding where it is strong and what is weak. It also gives you a sense of satisfaction that you can't get any other way. I get nervous when I let others work on my vehicles, I know the mistakes that can be made, I've seen them. It's never pretty.

I also save myself some cash for other things... while I can afford my car, I'm not independently wealthy. I still have to budget, and as such, I therefore need to put in the wrench time.

 

Excellent point.

 

I've spent a few thousand $ learning that.

Still, it's not a bad idea, especially for basic engine soundness, etc.

 

I paid for a PPI because I'm a newbie to Ferraris. I'm very knowledgeable in BMWs and have done all of my own PPIs for the ones I've owned. I am learning (but don't know) all of the idiosyncrasies of various Ferraris, so at least this time it was smart to have someone else look it over. The other factor was the fact that the car was not local to me.

Some PPI items are not judgement calls, reading the clutch life, performing compression and leakdown tests, verifying functionality of items. These are concrete tests with results that are worth doing.

Anyone that doesn't understand that things can still break quickly after a PPI is foolish. You're buying a used car, you do what you can to minimize your risk. I won't ever buy a car blind.

 

That is true to a degree.

I have lived and worked all over the world and one fact stayed constant regardless.


The VERY BEST mechanics (for road cars & trucks) NEVER worked for a manufacturer or dealer. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

Why?

There is NO MONEY in it and their time is NOT theirs.





As to the DIYers. There are lots of good ones out there (lots of crappy ones too admittedly). I am not to that level YET but am working on it. I ask a LOT of questions, most could be classified as 'stupid' by most PRO wrenches, but I so, so I do NOT MAKE mistakes or that are not discovered and rectified during the Re-check processes.

Mistakes are deadly. I have much more to lose than a bonded mechanic.




My car is :VIN 34641. It will never come onto the market while I am alive but I thought I'd let the community know to stay away from it.

P.S. The shims are so screwed up (too narrow and too fat) & it looks like it MAY have come from the factory that way by the appearent condition of them.

 

There are many threads here discussing the fact that the cam marks will not necessarily line up perfectly when the car is properly timed. As I understand it these are assembly marks, and the marks may be slightly off when the car is properly timed. I have no first hand knowlege however as my car has only 3k miles on it since I bought it and the last timing and valve adjustment service was performed.Therefore, once again, how do you know the timing is off. I am also talking about older cars. I do not know anything about newer cars. Maybe someone else can elaborate.

 

I think to a large degree it depends on what the DIYer is doing himself. As long as he knows what he is doing it is fine. But, if taking on something with no understanding as to why he is doing not what he is doing like following a recipe for example ....that could be a problem. As long as one knows one's limitations the DIYer should be applauded. The real question then becomes: How do you tell the difference when looking at a car? The same principle applies, if you are making the call then you are the DIYer expert doing the PPI. Is that within your comfort range or should that really be left to the expert? If you are asking this question of us as posed in the start then my impression is that you most likely are not qualified to be a PPI DIYer. Get a pro to check out the car for you. IMHO

 

I have done 308, 328, 348 and Testarossa's. Every one of them was timed properly, and guess what? There is usually one or more cams slightly off. I have the habit of checking how the timing is before I start working on an engine. You wouldn't believe how many of them were WAY off.

Why don't people get it, once and for all? Those are alignment marks to use as a reference when you are assembling the engine. They will get you in the ball park. They are NOT even acurate enough for you to visually trust them. Don't believe me? Find a friend that knows how to do it and be there with him when he does it. You will understand that a 2-3 degrees difference is a very small amount when looking at the cam marks.

This is a performance engine, an engineering masterpiece, not your Fiat Punto. Please treat your engine as it should be treated!