Mark WEBBER to replace Massa next year?

Perhaps now, because Rubens was the worst starter in the history of f.1!!!!!
AS for Webber, if you take a look at most of his races at williams you will see he was very easy to overtake...

 

We don't need a moonwalker at the Scuderia. What we need is a capable leader, which is fundamental. Then we need a great team to build a great car. Replacing Felipe isn't going to solve the problem. Period.

 

We have that. He won a GP this year.

It is a first step as it will give the engineers twice the feedback they're getting now after each sortie with the car.

Webber would be better than Massa. Then again that's true for about 75% of the current field.

 

+1

"Twice the feedback".... You know this how? I'll say it again; He's vastly experienced and much loved by the team. He works hard. He "fits in" with the Italians and has been with Rob for a *long* time. He doesn't rock the boat or B&M all the time. He doesn't often bin it.

There's a lot to be said (particularly in F1) for the "devil you know"......

Sure, Fred's generally a little quicker but I believe he's a little quicker than anyone else.

If he can get on top of the tires, and there's as much chance of him doing that as anyone else, he'll be at the pointy end again.

Will he be back in 2013? Probably not unless he gets his act together - And that's fine too. But I'm sure whoever replaces him will be just a little behind Fred as well.

Nothing to be gained, and potentially much lost, by replacing him at this stage IMO.

Cheers,
Ian

 

That's like an employee who shows up on time every day, doesn't earn tons of money, brings home-made cookies to work every Friday and is well liked by their coworkers. But is *totally* inept at doing the job they were hired for. Unfortunately, the last part is the only thing that matters.

Were that true, Kimi would have been retained, and Rubens too.

"A little quicker" like in the same way Kate Upton is a "little better looking" than Janet Reno.

How many (more) years might this take? How many millions does he cost the Scuderia before the point is made? Even the team is saying he's out the door unless something dramatic changes.

A higher WCC position to be gained, which would be worth millions to Ferrari.



As for the Webber rumor, I read a story today that he was in negotiations with RBR for an additional year. I tend to doubt he will go to Ferrari. I don't think the "friends with Alonso" thing really matters. I think the only thing that matters is "willing to be Alonso's female dog without any reservation". Webber has shown he does not accept that role well within RBR, so I don't see Ferrari hiring him in that role, unless he either just wants the cash and doesn't care, or he actually thinks he could give Alonso a run for his money, which would never happen.

 

Oh really? Did Webber, by any chance help the Red Bull build a solid car? Webber is doing great because the car is great. Look what he did in a Williams, Jaguar, and the early days at Red Bull. Nothing.

 

+2!

Sorry, Mike. Now you sound whiny! <grin>

 

Williams was in decline
Jaguar had no money and no corporate support (from Ford)
Red Bull were new then...

How do you think RBR got to where they are today? Takes an experienced driver to feed back information to the engineers... who do you think has provided that feedback???

 

That's not the job of the driver. The job of the driver is to go quickly on the race track and score the most points possible. Alonso is doing that job - Massa is NOT! You say replacing Massa wouldn't make any difference to the long term improvements to the car? You're right - but again, that's not his job. The driver's job is to score in Spain, then in Monaco, etc THIS YEAR. There are plenty of drivers in F1 right now who could do the driver's job better than Massa.

 

+1

 

Unfortunately, since his accident, Massa has lost speed he couldn't afford to lose. Ferrari was nice enough to get him to drive again when he was back to full health, but unfortunately it never worked out. He's had only a few good races since his come back, which isn't enough after 2 and a quarter seasons.

I wish he didn't have to go, he's a fantastic chap, but that's not whats needed in F1. Certainly not what Ferrari need now.

Replacing him with someone else before the end of the season isn't going to work either.

If Kimi has signed an option with Red Bull for 2013 I can see Webber taking Massa's spot.

 

That's a hell of a big if!..... My understanding is that he's signed with Fauxtus thru 2013.

OK, we know contracts get broken all the time, but I'm liking his chances staying where he is.

Cheers,
Ian

 

True. Lotus is doing quite well. I have no idea about their financials though...I doubt Kimi wants to be with a team that can't continue developing the car, or has the money to develop the next car, now that he (and teams) know that he still has his speed.

 

You have zero proof. Nice opinion though

 

Of course I am whining

But I don't think my points are wrong.

I think it comes down to whether there is anything to be gained. I adamantly say there is - but it depends who they have available to replace Massa. I am not one of the folks who believe Ferrari can get any driver at any time, so I think the only reason they don't can Massa is because they don't want a 6-month driver and the guy they really want (make no mistake, they already have a very short list on that) isn't available right now.

 

You're definitely not the one who is whining.

I'm always stunned when folks who otherwise have a general understanding of F1 defend Massa when it is obvious to the most casual of viewers that this guy is now hopelessly outclassed and just a dead weight on the team.

I cant wait for his successor. Whoever that will be, it will be a day for celebrations.

 

It won't be Webbo. Perez is next for that seat.

 

Completely disagree.

The driver does not exist in isolation - he is part of a team. The engineers aren't drivers (another part of the team) and none of them would have the ability to get the most out of the car - so they need driver feedback to complete the design and setup.

THEN comes the public part of the drivers job - win the race!

 

We beg to differ [Which is fine of course ]

I simply don't think there's anyone out there (outside the big two or three who aren't available) that's as quick as Fred. He's not "inept" at all IMO. He's a damn fine and experienced driver who's in Freds shadow - Same as *any* other driver would be right now.

Err, no; For reasons we'll probably never know, Kimi quit. Rubens wanted a shot at being a #1 and knew that was never going to happen where he was. So he took the lead seat (and the $!) from Honda.

The only possible comparison we can make is what happened after he got hurt - Badoer was a total disaster and Fisi's experience is best forgotten - Who's to say *anyone* could do a better job with Clifford right now? Wasn't it Flav that once claimed you hired Fred if you wanted your car to go ~1/2 second quicker? Fred is *that* good IMO.

They're all struggling with tires right now - Only the Schu had the balls to say so, but they're all over the map. If they can make Clifford work he'll be fine again.

Big deal! Seriously, the few tens of millions they lose by finishing, say 4th versus 6th is more than covered by, I dunno, merchandise sales. It's a big deal to the mid pack guys, but not Ferrari. If they don't win it all, they're not bothered.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Your opinion, with which I (as a somewhat knowledgeable fan) vehemently disagree.

If he were that bad he'd have been canned already, regardless of contract status. The guys in the team know a lot more than us in the peanut gallery and they're still behind him - Just!....

OK, if he wants an extension beyond this season he's gotta pull his socks up, we all know that. But he's far from "dead weight" IMO.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Personally, it was Adrian Newey provided the feedback. Think about it...

Secondly, i do agree it takes experience to provide sufficient feedback to the engineers. But, my question is, is Mark Webber's feedback sufficient? Do you really think he can provide better feedback than Felipe?

In terms of experience, just look at the Williams lineup this year. Both inexperienced drivers, just 1 season under their belt, but they've already scored more points this season than they did the entire last season.

Williams was in decline? Well definitely they were, but why is Nico Rosberg so much more higher rated than Webber then?

 

Just ask any folks around here, including Andreas, how MS built the Ferrari empire.

 

One could debate that it was really Jean Todt, but I am with you on this point.

But the other point is that with testing banned a driver can do little now. MS built that team through testing and testing and testing until everybody else wanted to go home but he was still testing ...
Pete

 

I go with Holy Quadrinity - a magic combination of Todt, Brawn, Byrne, and Schumacher... with a slightly larger share of the credit going to Brawn. His pitwall strategy was directly responsible for many wins that Schumacher otherwise would not have been able to achieve (that includes T-cars with wet setups so Schu could switch from dry to wet on a moments' notice before the start, etc).