I've searched threads but haven't found exact answers I'm looking for. Input would be appreciated. I have an 04 360 spider with Capristo Twin Sound. Sounds great in open/muffler by pass mode, but I have gotten used to it and now would like it even louder and more F1 sounding. Plus it is too quiet when in quiet mode (I got the Stage 1 + open option). I currently have the stock maniflods, precats, cats. Car is at FoTB getting its annual plus all engine mounts replaced. While there I would like to possibly add headers, straight pipes or both but have some questions: 1. I assume headers (and precat delete) will make it louder but it's still possible to get a CEL. Is there a particular header set up that will lower the chance of getting a CEL? 2. Test pipes will give a CEL due to deleting the main cats. Is there a way around that other than ecu reflash? 3. Which adds more F1 sound and loudness headers or test pipes? 4. Does anyone have headers, test pipes and Capristo Twin Sound (all three)? 5. I am concerned about the heat from the headers, especially possible fire. The Capristo heat wraps do a great job but then there are other ramifications (heat gets pushed down to cats and burns them up, or heat doesn't dissipate from engine block as well). Accordingly I think I would go with a ceramic coated header. Still is there a concern with heat and fires? 6. Should I do one first (headers) and then if needed do the test pipes second? Or just do them both at the same time? 7. I don't care about the minor hp gains and more the sound. Is there a difference between say capistro header, Agency Power, Fabspeed or say the $750 Eurocustoms headers offered on the Fchat classifieds? All are SS. 9. Anyone tried the Eurocustoms headers in the Fchat classifieds (several sets, all are new). If it means $2500 capistro headers, $2500 heat wraps, $2000 install, $1500 reflash ecu and still the possibility of CEl, damaging cats and fires... I would pass on all of it and maybe just look into buying a 430 or scud instead (my 360 is already topped out in the price range for 360's). If its a few thousand and I'll get a louder F1 sound, I'd do it. Just looking to renew some more inspiration into my Fcar. As FofTB said, it was real cool when a customer put twin turbo set-up on his CS... until it caught on fire. He also had another customer that had headers and the capristo heat shield bag wraps and the extra heat went downstream to his cats and burned them up. He said you may be opening up other issues. Thanks for any input.
"If it means $2500 capistro headers, $2500 heat wraps, $2000 install, $1500 reflash ecu and still the possibility of CEl, damaging cats and fires... I would pass on all of it and maybe just look into buying a 430 or scud instead (my 360 is already topped out in the price range for 360's). If its a few thousand and I'll get a louder F1 sound, I'd do it. Just looking to renew some more inspiration into my Fcar." That's why I decided not to change headers and cats. You are looking at ~$10k with the ECU reprogramming. IMO, just save some money and get a 430.
Interested in getting these answers too.. I've eyeballed those eurocustoms headers but haven't found any feedback on them so it makes me wonder if they are a tad sketchy.
Nothing sounds like a 355-- awesome. However at this point it does seem like it 'll be more than a few grand for the 360 and there's still the opening of possible new issues. I'm probably better off sticking with the Cap Twin Sound. Accordingly (even though I've not rec'd any answers, I am starting to itch towards a 430 spider 3 pedal. If its not a 3 pedal next stop.... 458 spider.
Kyle- I just finished installing Fabspeed headers and Kinetic hi-flow cats on my car. Since the alternator died and I had get that re-built, it was time to install them as they had been sitting around a while now. I have a tubi, but in my opinion, it was a quiet tubi and exhaust. After install of headers and cats, the exhaust note is louder and is perfectly 'ripping' when at WOT and on downshifts. It's absolutely the sound I have been wanting! It has definitely renewed my enthusiasm for the car as well! Plus, the sense of satisfaction being a DIY'r is always great too! The engine bay is warmer now for sure, but the headers come with heat shields for the AC compressor and Alternator which I installed. I also installed some additional heat shield piping on the Alternator cable, since that's the thing that burns up and catches your car on fire. Have your mechanic make sure he inspects that cable and be sure it's nice and tidy and shielded well. I am not concerned really with the additional heat, and won't install the header wraps. I think it is fine when driving and the challenge grille helps with heat dissipation. I do have CEL now though and I got the headers with the air injector rails as well hoping to avoid the CEL. So, the word on the forum is that I have to back out the sensors on the headers to get them out of the exhaust stream a bit in order to get the CEL to go away. I am going to install 'spark plug de-foulers' as that should give me the extension I need and I have heard that's the solution. I'll do that this week. Hope that helps! Hunter
Which do you think adds more sound test pipes or headers? I would guess test pipes since they delete the cats. Test pipes would not add much add'l heat, areinexpensive and easy to install or deinstall... maybe I should try those first.
Hi great thread. I don't post a whole lot on the forums but I do have some knowledge with it being my back round and wanted to add my input, I hope this helps out.
This is going to sound like a total newbie post, but I was under the impression that test pipes replaced cats.. Yet in the post above it mentions having test pipes and hi-flow cats on the same application. Can someone clear this up for me? I have a tubi and would like to remove the cats altogether. In Oklahoma we don't have emissions testing to deal with.
Test pipes DO replace cats. That said, I've got Seca Competizione headers (with no air rails), Hyperflow cats, and a Tubi muffler. Competizione reprogrammed the car so no CEL and nice HP / TQ boost. Lots of GREAT noises at WOT as well 02' 360 Spyder
Test pipes are going to be LOUD. Easy to install and re-install? Well, compared to changing headers, yes. Compared to changing your Oil yourself? No way. It's at least a 3-4+ hour deal if not longer as you have to take bumper off and Challenge grille off to access and then fight the barbque'd bolts and nuts that hold them together. Then take out muffler(for tubi you have to.), insert new cats and if your muffler intake has been tightened down, you'll need to have a way to widen the opening to get the cats back in. Then put all that stuff back together and make it look Purrrfect. Rear bumper is much easier than front in getting it aligned. In-expensive? Compared to buying a new car? Yes. Compared to getting your lawn mowed? No. Depends on the rate your mechanic is charging per hour. I would go with Sport cats first. See if you like them, then if not, goto Cat delete/test pipes. Oh, and not sure about your state, but all cars have to have Cats here in Virginia or you fail state inspection. Hunter
Test pipes do replace the Cats. Test pipes are just straight pipes that replace the exhaust section where the cats were. Hi Flow cats are cats but that are less restrictive/go straight thru and are louder. They still have the bulge like a cat. Analogy would be a stock muffler on a chevy vs a cherry bomb muffler that is just a straight muffler you can look right thru. The Euro Customs test pipes Ryan referred to in his post are test pipes witha bulge in the middle so they look like hiflow cats but are really just test pipes. It so upon visual inspection it looks like you have cats or hiflow cats but really don't (there is nothing inside the bulge). Some claim the bulge on the ones we are talking about are "resonators" that ass a little back pressure and reduce the likelihood of a CEL. I decided to go with the test pipes Ryan is talking about from EuroCustoms. So I'll have stock manifolds and precats, test pipes and capristo twin sound (level 1 when valves closed, fully open system when open). Open system meaning manifolds, test pipes and out the back of the car! Level 1 (closed will be nice but tame and quiet and open will be screaming F1 when appropriate). I'll post sound when its done. FoTB is doing all the work. It's already there to do it's annual, new tires (Mich Pilot sport2 all around), all engine mounts, respray front bumper (couple scrapes from parking lot) new 3M bra on bumper, change clutch and transmission fluids, adjust gear shift couplers on 3 pedal cables.
I have test pipes and Tubi, as well as FabSpeed 02 Extenders ($100-$200 cost). I rarely get a CEL in cooler weather, but in summer heat or after very long drives, a O2 related CEL does pop up. I've had the car for 7 months, and had 2-3 o2 related CEl's pop up in this fashion as a result of the test pipes, despite the O2 extenders. I just bought a $40 OBDII code reader to clear the codes in 30 seconds when this happens (I just check it's the same code and not something new, and previously made sure the code was only O2 related with my indy shop). No big deal. One day, I'd like to get headers to make the beast sound even more aggressive, but I also don't want a constant CEL and am not going to pay thousands for a tune which otherwise does little but remove the o2 cel's permanantly. (Now, the tune in my 996tt to remove the cel from the catless europipe loud exhaust had a nice benefit of adding 80 horsey's for $1k, that is value for money!).
Update. I bought the Eurocustoms test pipes ($750) and o2 ($150) extenders from Fabspeed. The parts arrived at FoTB yesterday. I should have the car back mid next week (also have a bunch of other service/maintenance done -- $9,000 worth... ikes!). I expect to get an occaisonal CEL even with the extenders. Will clear codes myself with the $40 handheld as someone previously mentioned they do. If it happens a bunch I will pay the $1000+ for a CEL reflash and upgrade (supposedly will gain some 30 hp with some remapping, retarding ignition etc as well). Once its done I'll post a go pro sound clip. Wish I did a before and after (Capristro Twin Sound with cats vs with test pipes).
Hey Alan, where is it that you can reset the ecu with an obd2 reader? I had to reset the ecu(s) via the kill switch. Also, Very important do Not put 3m or Avery paint protection on your bumper for 90 days so that the paint can cure....can't stress how important this is buddy!
Interesting thread.... I installed Agency headers (jet hot coated), Kinetix high flow CATs with O2 extenders, topped off with FabSpeed muffler and tips. I do get CEL for CAT inefficiency. I don't want to spend the $$$ for a reflash, so for now, I will just clear the code every once in awhile. If someone comes up with a cost effective cure, please share it!!!!!! I will say that the sound is great, love the sound at WOT!!!!! No drone at highway speed. Sounds very F1 wail. Very happy driver.
Has anyone opened the existing headers and removed the CAT material and welded the unit closed? I would be interested to know if this causes any CELs, additional heat, etc.
Well, new headers (fabspeed) and Kinetix high Flow Cats gave me a CEL code P1400. Tried the Spark plug "non-foulers" at Napa, but they aren't long reach so didn't work. Found http://www.bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html and that works!! No more CEL. It makes sense right? The stock headers have a pre-cat in there, so the o2 sensor is used to seeing the air post -pre cat,, which should will be different than just straight through the headers. Big Daddies "mini-cat" is exactly that. A tiny 'cat' in the extender plug, gives the O2 sensor the kind of exhaust its looking for! Perfect. $100, 5 minute install and that is solved. Hunter
Temuri, CEL means " CHECK ENGINE LIGHT " , which is the icon / symbol with the shape of an engine on the dash cluster. When the CEL light is activated, it is usually due to a malfunction, typically engine related ( misfires, emissions, exhaust to name a few. The CEL faults can be read by using an OBD ( On Board Diagnostics ) tool, which plugs to a receptacle under the dash of a 360 .
Thanks a lot. It was my guess, but wasn't sure. Thank God and thank you guys, you helped me to define the problem. I have the same problem already second year after the aftermarket exaust system was installed. Already changed O2 sensors 3-4 times. I was close to swap on oem headers. Ohh, so happy that this can be cured. Forza FerrariChat!!!!!
