Some day. They're about to open Atlanta Motorsports Park. My friend bought a membership and wants me to come up with him soon. I might hit that but I don't want my CS to be storied so I might not. I keed.
Guaranteed you'll come away with a much greater appreciation for the engineering behind the CS once you experience it on the track. CS is right at home on the track.
This comment means nothing, as I get many non-Ferrari owners asking if my 1997 F355 is a the newest Ferraril...if it's red and taken well cared of most people don't know the difference from late 1990's to present.
Best thing you can do for your desire to drive fast. While I really don't have much desire for speed anymore the 5 years I raced around the country will always be top memories. You will leave the track tired and so much more appreciative of your red sled. You already have a great love of your car. You will find even a deeper one after a 100 lap day burning thru a set of tires and brake pads Stokpro ive watched change in just 3-4 track days I've watched him. He's smooth like butter and is really learning his beast. I'm almost having more fun watching him flog the car than I do driving them anymore.
Regarding whether 360s are selling or not: As these cars are getting older, there are fewer and fewer really nice, low mile (almost new condition) ones available for sale - or even in existence. Yes - they command higher prices, but the difference really isn't that much. Say $65K for a high mile not too desirable car versus maybe $90K for the best. This is much less of a bump than considering a 430. So, the demand is there for those premium cars and there is little supply. So, those cars, the late year (2003/2004) cream puffs with no stories and the right options and colors, sell fast because those are the ones that are in high demand and short supply. And yes, they tend to be at the dealers for sale because the dealers know those are the cars that sell and the cars that they can mark up for a reasonable profit. I know of one essentially perfect 2004 360 that was offered by a dealer at a very premium price - it sold instantaneouly. As these cars get older, these market realities will only become more pronounced. Regarding horsepower: The 430s certainly have more pull than the 360s. None of these cars though have the real thrust of even a C5 Corvette - which has 'only' 350 HP - BUT A LOT MORE MID RANGE TORQUE. There is an old saying - from Road & Track I believe - that goes 'people buy horsepower but they want torque.' Sorta like there is no substitute for cubic inches. Ferrari has seen this light - see the massive cubic inch gain from 360 to 430. It took Ferrari 25 years to bump displacement 0.6 lier (308 to 360) and 10 minutes to bump it 0.7 liter to the 430. That said, all of these cars have way more horsepower than you really need or can use except for stoplight drage races - and if that's what you want to do get a Viper. There is only so much HP you can use or put down to the ground. A car with 400 HP is no where near twice as fast as a car with 200 HP. At some point - it just don't matter. A Bugatti may have 1,200 HP, but it really isn't much faster than a C6 Corvette.
While I agree with most the 360's and 430's have plenty of torque when driven properly above 6500rpms. Your point is made as you can only really do this in the Mountains or on a track but they are damn fun in the 7000rpm range and I would much rather flog a 360 at high speeds than a twitchy vett at speed.
>>So, those cars, the late year (2003/2004) cream puffs with no stories and the right options and colors, sell fast because those are the ones that are in high demand and short supply. I would tend to think the opposite, actually. A 2000 or 2001 high mileage coupe might sell in the $60s or even lower and at that price point, even if the new owner drives it excessively, the amount of further depreciation has a bottom probably somewhere in the $40s (provided its well maintained). 328s and 348s routinely are listed in the 40s, so I think the bottom as I defined it has some support (and is probably conservative). Therefore, the next owner can drive worry-free (with respect to miles and depreciation) as the worst case expectation is about $20k of loss. Now, on the other end of the spectrum, there is a 1200 mile 2003 spider (360) at my local dealer which is a 6 spd with red/tan and really looks like its brand new. They are asking $125k. I thought (and still think) this is a reasonable asking price but the next owner will have to worry SIGNIFICANTLY about depreciation since he/she is starting out at such a low mileage at the onset. Say in both examples the next owner drives the car 25k miles. For the older coupe, the worst case is probably $20k lost in depreciation whereas with the spider its probably more like $40-50k. Since used car buyers of this ilk (10+ model years) are typically of lower net worth (like me!), they probably are relatively sensitive to this potential loss in value, and so I would think the opposite -- i.e., that the low-mileage, higher-priced, older creampuffs are much harder sells.
I've never seen a non-salvage 360 in the $40s, but I did have a friend buy a 36k 360f1 for mid-$50's....then he had to dump $15k in the first year to keep it running and make it right....not a pretty picture I really don't seen 360s at the same price as 348s...have you driven a 348? Sorta scary without the charm of a f355....Leagues away from a 360 I really don't see 348s having a cult following like Porsche 993s or E30 M3s...
I agree with the lower price 360's.. lower price means more people can buy them and have the experience. As far as your friend "dumping" $15k into it.. he's either very unlucky.. or if he spent the money making it look like new, foolish. I bought mine in the range you describe with EVEN MORE MILES.. 50k!.. and have put maybe $3k into it including a new set of starfish wheels with tires. Starts, runs great for over a year and a half of happy ownership. Granted mine isn't an F1. I don't want this to turn into one of "those threads", but the myth of "affordable is expensive" needs to be dispelled. I do agree that I don't see 360's going into 348 pricing. Which is good, because I want one in the future.
low end torque is a good thing if you like it or need it, especially when you do a lot of stop light traffic. I like high rev engine, I never liked the lowtech low rev engine. Later model vette they are ok but........is a vette, everthing make noise after 2 years except the horn.
While true, there is also the concern of us lower-end net worth people that a car with many more miles will need more repairs and maintenance. Thus, probably there is a happy medium somewhere between the highest priced/lowest mileage car and the lowest priced/higher mileage cars, and that will vary considerably depending on the buyer's perception of risk as between these extremes. I guess from an economist's point of view, that's why demand/sales price curves vary.
FWIW, when I said I was being conservative with the 40k estimate I meant that I (like some other posters) agree that a 360 is worth more than a 348, generally speaking and so by calling my estimate of a bottom-out point in the 40k range, I meant that it could be higher than that (low 50s?). Of course, no one knows what the future holds, so it will be interesting to see. My first Ferrari was a '94 348 red/tan spider which I remember fondly. I really liked the lack of power steering and manual top. It was a bit 80s looking and not super-fast, but it was a fun convertible to take to the beach (or anywhere for that matter).
Rob, Found a 360 yet ? I have no idea what you are looking to spend, but thanks for your stupid comments on my ad If you are serious, make an offer. Otherwise stop waiting my time I have one of the cheapest and few 6 spd manual 360s listed for sale If you find a cheaper / nicer one, then I assume you would have bought it
Yup, great attitude for a seller. Makes me want to fly right out and buy it! Just imagine if there was something we disagreed on during the transaction..... I hope any potential buyers do exactly what I do before buying an exotic from a membership Forum like Ferrari Chat; conduct a search on the seller's previous posts. Sure can learn a lot about a car and owner when I do that. For instance, by doing a search on your profile, I discoverd you have been trying to sell your 360 for $69k for over 1/2 a year now. The only reason the car hasn't sold in such a long time can only br one of two things; 1) Overpriced, or; 2) Vehicle condition. There can be no other possibilites. Real money on your car considering the time it has been on the market and the price it is listed at($69k)...I'd say $62k to $65k. Anything more than this and I am confident you would have taken it. I stand by what I said. Lots of sellers out there asking unrealistic prices on their 360's. These cars have been up for sale for a very long time. I believe yours is a perfect example of this logic. The real money on an older 360 these days is $65k or so. I am talking real money. Lots advertised in the 70's, but they are wasting their time unless their car is truly special.
FerrariChat sellers are not marketing their cars like a typical dealership would so it is unfair to say that there is a problem with the car being for sale so long. Factor in that FerrariChat members actually have other responsibilities and commitments, and can't dedicate 40+ hrs a week to selling a car, and so many of us who are "on the fence" about selling....it's unfair to even suggest there is a problem with the car or price! FerrariChat is a great community of OWNERS and TIRE KICKERS. I have seen the same people looking to buy cars for YEARS!!! First it was the old "when the 360 is 75k I'm buying"... Now that same buyer is making the excuse that they are going to hold out for the 430 when it is 75k... Come on already. Serious buyers are buying at much higher prices and enjoying!
You are the one putting stupid comments on my for sale ad. What Ferrari did you end up buying? Giving me attitude when I don't think we ever met or talked...have you seen my car?....honestly its listed in one place right now, FChat, if I really wanted to sell it or HAD to sell it, i'll put it on ebay or autotrader etc please DO NOT buy my 360 We can play at this game....Hope you get $62k for your NSX http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353993 Going through ebay complete listing I see that a 2005 with 10k miles ended not sold with a high bid at $55k...man some NSX sellers must be asking too much for their Japanese F348 wannabes (I actually like NSXs, owned a black 92 coupe back in the mid-90's) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-SILVER-BLACK-6SPD-10K-MILES-CLEAN-HISTORY-/160824561695?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2571e4101f
If you ever can ask them how much they'd give me for my red/black euro speed 2000 6 speed. 25k KM (~ 15.5k miles). Major service just completed in December 2011. Not looking to sell unless it actually would fetch an enticing number. I love my car just had it out for a long while this past weekend with my girl. So much fun.
