Differentials available for Testarossa / 512

Newman and Phil,

As a TR owner, I sincerely appreciate the efforts both of you have made to the preservation of these cars. The perception within some parts of the Ferrari community, rightly or wrongly, is that these cars are potential time bombs, to be admired from afar. Much the same as is said about the venerable 355. While I vehemently disagree with that proposition, I know that through your efforts to offer a bulletproof cost effective solution to this problem, we are insuring that (1) more of these cars will remain on the road well in to the future and (2) that the perception of this cars weak link will change as more people become educated about the problem and your solutions.

I know there will naturally be a competition between your products. Both have enough merit that buyers will have a difficult choice to make.

Either way, the testarossa community owes both of you a debt of gratitude.

Thank you...

 

Well said Joe.

 

+1

 

+ 1 Joe !!

There should be no competition ... just happy F people imo.

(Nice site Phil !)

 

I agree with your other issues.....but "drop in unit"...........There may have been a very very lucky few.....but this is far from being a "drop in unit". I own one and am very pleased with the craftmanship, and the high quality of the diff as a whole.........I even think the price is somewhat fair. But this is by no means a pull the old unit out, crack it open (no pun intended), re-insert the spiders and clutches and put the shim(s) back in place and voila'!! Pre-load does not just magically come back to spec............it's absolute luck if it does, trust me...........been there, shimmed that!

Droppin' loads Me

 

You are absolutely right Kerry ...

Can you please post some of your own exepriences here about shimming these diffs ?

There seems to be a lot of not-understanding about shimming .... ("do you really have to do that ?" and so on) .....

 

How can you install a diff without PLAYING with the shims? You have to get the correct preload, then check the tooth pattern and adjust it to be correct with a final backlash to be in the specs. This is ALL about shimming. And I have a question for you guys. How many of you make timming marks on their pinion/crown set to put them back in the SAME spot. Depending on the ratio there are 3 types of gear match. Hunting, semi-hunting and non hunting. Would you like to be back in someone elses old shoes? When not putting a gear set back in their original place you may have a noisy rear end because of that. Just an info for those who didn't already knew. ;-)

 

When I had a 1st gear failure in my '87 TR I took the opportunity to have one of Newman's carriers installed as part of the repair. FNE allowed 20 hrs. to shim for end bearing preload and tooth engagement. New end bearings were fit and amazingly the unit was a complete drop in. Both preload and engagement were well within spec. Sometimes you do get lucky.

 

WOW!!!!!.....20 hours "Allowed" to shim.....at a shop rate of $180.00 an HOUR ....that's a $3,600.00 SHIM JOB!!!!.....Mark

 

Struck an issue here in Melbourne this week. A mate of mine is having the diff replaced in his 87 Testarossa before it actually fails.

He calls the shop today as the car has been missing in action for a while. Mechanic tells him that he can't get shims. Ferrari not stocking anymore?

Like WTF is that all about. These shims are the same fitted to many Ferrari's and obviously ALL of the flat 12's?

I looked on Eurospares and Maranello in London and they do list one or two shims, but generally they were not available.

They list heaps of variables which you need when shimming the diff properly. Here's the entire parts listing with some indicative pricing.

Large RHS external spacer
103427 1.2mm -----72.13 GBP each
130998 1.3mm -----28.28 GBP each
103428 1.4mm -----10.37 GBP each
130989 1.5mm
103429 1.6mm -----5.92 GBP each (WTF)
103232 1.638mm
130990 1.7mm -----30.08 GBP each
103430 1.8mm -----92.01 GBP
130991 1.9mm -----54.47 GBP each
103431 2.0mm ----25.88 GBP each

LHS inner shim under bearing.

Ferrari call this ‘bearing spacer’

132923 2.45mm -----30.98 GBP each (normal stock holding in UK)
132924 2.5mm ----- 30.08 GBP each (stock availability NONE)
132929 2.85mm ----- 50.70 GBP each
132930 2.9mm ----- 30.08 GBP each
132925 2.55mm -----28.28 GBP each
132926 2.65mm
132927 2.7mm
132928 2.75mm
132931 2.95mm
103231 2.862mm -----30.98 GBP each
103422 2.4mm -----30.98 GBP (stock availability NONE)
103423 2.6mm
103424 2.8mm
103425 3.0mm ----- 30.98 GBP each (limited stock)
103426 3.2mm -----64.89 GBP each (stock availability NONE)

This bearing spacer fits the following models:

208 GTB/GTS Carburetor, 208 Turbo, 3.2 Mondial/Cabriolet/T, 308 GT4 Dino, 308 GTB/GTS Carburetor, 308 GTB/GTS JAP, 308 GTB/GTS USA, 308 GTBi/GTSi, 308 GTBi/GTSi USA, 308 Quattrovalvole, 308 Quattrovalvole USA, 328 GTB/GTS, 365 GT4 BB, 512 BB (Carburetor), 512 BBi, 512 TR, F512 M, GTB/GTS Turbo, Mondial 8, Mondial 8 USA, Mondial Quattrovalvole Cabriolet, Mondial Quattrovalvole USA, Testarossa

So what's going on here? It is imperative to have a supply of these shims when doing the job yet the availability appears to be limited and the price is simply crazy.

The only way to do this job is to set the diff in place with your original old shims and see how you go. Then adjust with various thickness shims one way or the other until you get the preload correct.

Then check the engagement of the teeth and backlash between crown wheel and pinion and shift the diff left or right to suit. Naturally maintaining the previously set preload tollerances.

This takes hours and hours to do and many different shims to get it right.

How are you guys int he USA dealing with this whole shimming issue. Do your installers have a variety of shims on hand to play with?

 

Dana 60 shims exactly the same if I remember correctly...readily available, very inexpensive, and in every thickness you can dream up.....I think?

Sorta thinking Me

 

Good work Kerry.

Dana 60 might do the bearing but not the outer shim for the diff carrier.

I'll hunt some Dana 60 tomorrow and report back. Thanks.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RAT-1106/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RAT-1110/?rtype=10

http://completeoffroad.com/i-123943-shim-kit-complete-dana-60-61-70-u-sk-706375.html

http://www.drivetrainamerica.com/p-4860-708012-dana-60-70-differential-shim-kit.aspx

Kerry this looks promising for at least the inner shim.

As my shim was completely mangled in the failure, has anybody got the actual measurements of a factory Ferrari inner bearing shim. Overall outer diameter / inner diameter etc.

No idea yet if the Dana shim kits come in similar thicknesses to our Ferrari ones. I'll try to locate a local diff specialist tomorrow and find out.

We don't have as many Jeeps and Chevy 4 x 4's down here and Ford use a different rear end, but somewhere there will be a diff guy who knows their Dana Spicer rear ends.

 

I made my own outer shim...

Maker Me

 

How in hell can you get something that large perfectly flat in every direction. Looking at my original shim it appears to be a perfectly ground product.

What's your secret Kerry? Did you buy a sheet of shim material and have it laser cut?

 

SO check out this guy on fleabay:

http://stores.ebay.com.au/RONS-MACHINING-SERVICE/_i.html?_nkw=shim&submit=Search&_sid=242241676

This guy makes shims. If I know what the inner and outer diameters of the Ferrari shim are, I'll bet this guy can match them up and supply a shim fitting kit with similar thickness to factory.

Getting the larger outer might be more of a drama though.

 

Rob,
F LHS carier shim... ID 76mm OD 88.5mm. The OD edge that sits in the carrier is ground off so as to ensure it sits perfectly flat. I think you can see it best in the first photo.
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Thanks Mike.

Dean's 2.4mm, yours 2.5mm, mine 2.7mm.

It would be interesting to see what other guys are ending up with on inside and outside shim to see which sizes are most common.

 

It shouldn't be as the bearing used is common in many automotive applications and typically used in differentials, where shimming is necessary.

 

David, I mean the outer on the RHS which is about 8" diameter and shaped exactly as per the side carrier. It's Ferrari specific but could be manufactured by competent persons.

 

Ahh....I remember "that shim" as I needed one for my BB. Sorry....

 

I am getting a whole set of the bearing shims made up at the moment
2.45mm to 3mm in 0.05mm steps.

I will then get the large shim made as well to suit the pre-load.

I'll keep you guys in the loop.

Rob drop your large shim around when you are in the area and we will get a we will get a start on that one too. Mine is still in the car.