Okay...Get out the calculators...

So the black one is indeed 20153; the one at Forza is stamped 20005 indeed.

So that leaves us with one 20005 not accounted for...

http://www.ronsusser.com/inventory.htm?id=767
Ron Susser lists a red GTO remake as being 20005....

 

It even does not make it any easier . I went through my tons of pictures after my post and found, that the Black one was on offer at Techno Classica in Essen 2009 and -believe it or not- the car showed very, very reliable stampings of "20005" (see pictures attached, very certain, that the car was a delievery to Germany, Austria or Switzerland when new). I highly doubt that the car, that was last on offer in July of 2011, still being Black with Roll cage and Racing seats, was sold to the US and made into that what Forza offers today.

The stamping of the Forza-car is very hard to read and it looks like the "2" at the start is as valid as the "5" as the last digit.

The "Susser-car" is on plates 308 GTO, obviously from California. Sadly enough the Car Fax-license check is obviously not valid for pre-1981 cars. I will contact Susser to see what he can provide to clear this up. @Psalm40: Would it be possible to ask Forza for a picture of either the Serial-Number stamping on the engine bay or the steering-wheel badge?

best Regards

Matthias
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Euros only have the front fender "repeaters" (it functions with the turn signal).

North American cars get four "running lights" at the corners, they do not blink.

Euro cars brought here tried all sorts of variations of conversion, resulting in the kinds of cases we see here.

The center section of the rear valence has been removed, to mount the 4 tip ANSA (or whatever it is), that center section valence has a "mail slot" oval opening in it.

Looks like a nice enough car, blue plug wires and incorrect steering wheel excepted, I guess if it matters that much, you could restore the valve covers back to an aluminum colored paint or something.

Ya'll don't like blue 308s???

 

I'm the highest bidder but the GT3 sale now looks to be on hold. Why do cars get so attached to me, I swear that every time I put a car for sale the day to close a deal goes on forever.

 

I think Blue is the best color for any Ferrari. That's why Ferrari makes so many variations of blue.

 

If this car was available a few years ago, I'd be all over this.

Maybe contacting Dick Merritt and asking if he has any information about this car will shed some light.

 

You still have yours don't you? Remember me if you're ever willing to move it!

 

He has retired MANY years ago.....LOL!

I'm sure the number still works at DOT but it won't be him answering it.....

 

Forza was "sure" that their car is 20005. I know they are following the sale of this car closely. Maybe they can pipe up or PM me with a pic of the column number for clarification?

Editorial to follow.....
Interesting car, but with unsure number/provenance/mods, I'll chase my bargain 360 CS lead instead of spending that $$$$ here...

Edit: I have sold two cars on eBay. Both times I used eBay as an advertising tool. I think most of these cars sell after the real auction has ended. I would not be surprised if his does not meet the reserve.

 

I'm high bidder now (albeit under res) and P.S. was always a straight shooter when I went up there multiple times looking for my first 308 7+.yrs ago. This controversy makes me a bit hesitant to go higher though.

 

No offense to Forza and I might be reading into this too much....but it seems as if there is a bit of "game play" going on here. Listed on Friday afternoon, no buy-it-now price with a ridiculously low first bid price, questions on the number, no pics of the number, no number listed on the website...it seems that someone knows there are questions regarding his car and does not want to "ruin" the chances of a great purchase price, not by being deceitful, but by not being 100% up front. I hope my stupid gut instincts are wrong!

 

He replied to me by stating that the vin is indeed 20005.

 

Well,

That would give us TWO "real" 20005, if we accept that the black one posted by Matthias has also serious claims to be "20005", plus one possible "20005", the Ron Susser's GTO Conversion...
At the risk of stating the obvious (already said by Wazie just above) a pic of the engine compartment plate, plus a pic of the VIN on the column would be fine...but I am afraid that if they indeed say "20005", then one question remain: which car is then the "true" 20005?

Best,

 

I'd speculate it's more likely the one that has been most "modified". Pure and probably unwarranted personal speculation on my part, of course. This is going to be a lot of fun for us and zero fun for the current and prospective owners...

I wonder what the assembly numbers look like?

 

Agreed on the idea of checking these, Paul...IF they have survived repaints, restauration, etc...
And agreed also on the fact that, for the value of one of these cars from a strict investment perspective, the fact that more than one could rightly claim to be "20005" is not very good news for the owner / future buyer of any of these "20005".

best

 

The VIN issue aside, Forza is asking $85k for the car.

 

That would be more or less 70.000 euros, which would be the price here for a very clean car, with full history and complete and regular service. Rather high in today's price bracket.
There was one very clean car, with some small details that could be questioned (= a four pipe exhaust, which is not standard) a few monhs ago here, with an asked price of 85.000 euros, but could probably have sold for 75.000, but with an impeccable history. Don't know if it has sold, though.

 

To each his own, but I think that color is absolutely gorgeous.

 

Never mind the column plate, does anyone have a pic of the engine compartment FRAME STAMPING???

Should be F106AB * 20005 *....

Note the race car in Germany does NOT bear the frame designation F106AB, it says instead F106A on the Factory plate, for instance.(which is correct for an early Euro, IMO)..just trying to sort out that issue.

Do they maintian it has DOT paperwork??

 

Me too...Mario, also.....

(Steel #22641)
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Most 'glass Euros had a OEM single pipe exit exhaust, that promptly went in the dumpster for an ANSA system!

Which is what I think we see fitted here, it could have been installed below the stock valence, but if single exit style valence would have looked wierd.

 

Yes, Big Tex, I know, but "over here", the single exhaust is still more valued than the ANSA from an authenticity point of view.
Some say that in Europe, the ANSA was not a factory option, but a dealer's one; don't know if that make sense to you?
By the way, Mario or not Mario (and I admire him a lot) as for myself, I like them 3X8 blue!

Best,

 

Oh yes, definately an aftermarket "dealer' or customer modification...I was looking for another photo of a 'glass single exit...

I have two 'blue' cars, if you count the red one.
You can definately see the old color in the rock chips on my #20405 (also steel).

Nope, cannot find it....