And show me a "manual" transmission that automatically downshifts as you decelerate if you neglect to do so. Didn't think you could. Was that "fun" for you, easily amused one?
This is to make the transmission idiot proof.... Having never driven a manual stick shifted tranmsission car, you would not know the joys of pulling up to a stoplight, only to have it turn green and leave the light in what you thought was 1st gear only to be reminded it's 3rd or fifth(forgot to downshift).... oops. In the F1, after stalling, this would then require you to put the tranmsission in neutral, restart the car, and "if rolling still" have a few lights light up on the dash. The F1 tranmsission is an automated manual transmission anyway you slice it. Sorry kid. It might shift for you, if you so choose, but by definition ist is still an automated manual box. Justin
From the owner's manual: "The default setting for the F1 gearbox is AUTO mode." LOL even Ferrari refers to this as an "automatic" mode. No equivalent in a true manual gearbox.
So a 6-speed sequential manual gearbox that downshifts for you if you don't, is an automatic transmission? You are deluded. I should have listened to Trev and Eric and the others...
Oh and if you are stopped in gear and release the brake pedal or accelerator for more than 50 sec or hold the brake pedal for more than 10 minutes OR open the door the F1 "automatically" shifts into NEUTRAL! Show me a manual gearbox that can do that.
They have features of both manual and automatics but as far as automatics are concerned the similarities are more striking than the differences. The word "manual" means just that: the clutch assembly is operated "manually." In the F1 the clutch assembly is operated by computer i.e., "automatically."
The torque convertor is a means to an end. Before the advent of F1 type transmissions there was no other way to change gears if there is a rigid coupling between clutch plate and the flywheel unless you MANUALLY decoupled them i.e., a clutch pedal. With the F1 you can decouple the clutch plate AUTOMATICALLY without driver intervention. I've given numerous examples of when this happens.
Let me give you an another example of why I would call the F1 an automatic transmission: Ignore for a minute what is going on mechanically (torque converter) and look at the DRIVING MECHANICS . I have an S550. When I start the car in the morning I press the start button, engage "reverse", push the spring loaded steering wheel mounted shift lever down to engage (2nd) gear and pull away. In fact I can even use the steering wheel mounted paddles to engage a forward gear instead of using the column mounted shifter.(the paddles in the 550 are mounted to the steering wheel and rotate with it unlike the column mounted paddles in the F430) I can use the paddle shifters to change gears in precisely the same way I can in the F430. Now, granted, there are SOME differences. E.g., I don't think that I can put the 550 in neutral by pulling back on both paddles. This is identical to the driving mechanics of pulling my F430 out of the garage and driving off.
Babyboo, apparently, the 360 works a little differently than the 430 transmission. My 360 defaults to "manual" mode when fist started. Also, if I'm in auto mode and hit a paddle, auto mode is disabled and doesn't go back to auto unless I hit the button again. Yours works more like the dual clutch setup in the VW GTI with the DSG. With that one, the paddles will over ride, but will go back to auto if you don't keep shifting manually. That sounds to me like what you said in your posts. Also, on my car, as Redtaxi said, if driven properly, my car will not downshift by itself. It downshifts to make it dummy proof. If I wait for it to down shift, the engine is already bogging. Hardly, the proper way to drive. As others have said, it is a manual...just a different type of manual that anyone can drive, even with no experience. Yes, it is also can be driven "automatically", but I can assure you, that on the 360 (I have no experience with a 430), it was not designed to be driven in "auto" mode! I think it's time for everyone here to agree to disagree!
I used to use auto mode only in town when drinking something. Extremely rare. Now that I have a cupholder, I don't even do that anymore.
An F1 gearbox is a manual transmission that can also operate as an automatic. To me, it's neither a traditional auto (torque converter) or a manual (3 pedal with shift gates). Then again, most refer to it as an "automated manual gearbox," so I guess it's also both. Don't be caught up on the terms "automatic or manual." It's same system used in Ferrari's Formula 1 cars, so just refer to it as an F1 gearbox if you can't decide.
There are two modes on the F430 (at least the 08 that I have, I'm not sure about earlier iterations). On startup the vehicle defaults to "auto easy exit mode." What this means is that it is an auto mode but if the paddle shifters are used it switches to "manual" mode. If, at any time, the "auto" button is pressed on the center console, however, the transmission is in "auto" mode and will only transiently switch gears when the paddle shifters are used. It will then revert back to "auto" mode by itself after a short period of time. My 911 (with tiptronic) can also be driven like this. If the console shifter is in the "automatic" side of the gate it shifts automatically. Changing gears via steering wheel buttons places it in "manual" mode for 8 seconds after which it reverts back to a fully automatic mode. This is equivalent to the F1's "auto" mode. If the shifter is in the "manual" side of the gate then you have full control over gear changes with the caveat that it will let you neither lug the engine nor exceed redline just like the F1's "auto easy exit" mode. People who are hard core gated shifter, 3 pedal guys do not beleive that the F1 is a true manual gearbox. It's not that the mechanicals are different, it's just that the driving dynamics and driver inputs are quite different and require a different skill set. The F1 is a glorified "automatic" transmission in the most practical sense of the term. To me that is a good thing not a bad thing. I make no apologies about what cars I drive or what transmssions they are equiped with. The others can carry on with the hate speech if they like ("troll", "stupid" etc). Be my guest.
Dude! Not only you coming across as rude and infantile, but you're just flat out wrong! As many have now tried to point out to you, the manual gearbox in the 3 pedal cars is *identical* to that used by the F1 system; Same part # for Gods sake. Sure, in the F1 the (same) clutch is controlled hydraulically by the TCU rather than your left foot, but it's still a manual. Sure, the shift rods are also controlled by the computer rather than your hand, but it's still a manual. OK, the S/W is pretty clever and attempts to "help you out" - downshifting for you, not allowing "illegal" shifts and so on, but the cog-box/clutch assembly is nothing other than a computer controlled manual 'box. It does incorporate an auto mode but that's the key word that seems beyond your comprehension - You're simply putting the manual 'box into a mode where it changes for you. Doesn't make it an auto 'box though. An automatic slush-box is an entirely different beast. Cheers, Ian
Yes, from what you describe, it sounds like the DSG in the VW, which by the way, is an awesome transmission. The 360's are not as "user friendly" in auto mode. I think that's part of the reason for the uproar. We can call the F1 a "glorified automatic", but we can also call it a "glorified Manual". Those are just names we applied to something that is actually neither, we are trying to fit it into old technology forgetting that things have changed. let's call it an F1 automated manual from now on....that's what it is. I think everyone here will be happy with that. LOL We can argue a glass is 1/2 full or 1/2 empty forever, there will be no winners. It's all perception...
Ferrari does make a true gated shifter manual transmission and, not surprisingly it calls it the "manual" option. The F1 is not just another manual option. The term "F1" is a marketing term only. Nobody wants their "sports cars" to be called an "automatic" which brings to mind your fathers Oldsmobile but that is what it is basically. Like I said previously there is nothing wrong with an automatic transmission (torque converter or hydraulic clutch). If you put me in a 'real" 6-speed manual car I would not know how to drive it. Oh, I do "know" how to in principle but can't say I would so so without stalling the vehicle or damaging the gears. OTOH I can step in the F430 and drive off. Very intuitive and similar to my automatic Benz or 911 tiptronic.
I think I have heard just about enough of this guys (babyboo) crap. I have been a Silver subcriber to Fchat for over 5 years and enjoy reading and learning about the cars that I love, NOT the rantings of someone with an inflated ego. Dear babyboo, You need to stop your insane argument, and listen to the helpful members of Fchat. By the way, The Mayor, did not give that name to himself. It was bestowed upon him by the owner of Fchat (Rob Lay) a few months ago, for his invaluable knowledge of Ferrari's and his ability to share his insights with fellow Fchatters on this forum. Your comment about him increasing his post count, sent me through the roof. I don't give a rats @ss about post counts, evidenced by my whopping 44 posts over 5+ years! You on the other hand have been here 5 months and have alienated many of the experts that I learn from on a weekly basis. Telling people to eff off is merit for having you permanently banned. I love a good manual gearbox as much as the next guy. Except for you, because you have already stated that you don't know how to push in a clutch pedal and move a gear lever, at the same time. It's really hard. It takes practice and patience to learn, something that you have already proven that you don't have. Apologize to those you have offended, or in your apt words; GET LOST!
Took me a minute but I found that ignore button again. All is perfect now. If you are looking you can view a profile and there is a dropdown called "user lists" just above the name.
