Okay...Get out the calculators...

the Paris Show car was #18679

Matthias
www.F-Register.com

 

Neither do I...because that mystery would have been easy to solve: let someone check the chassis number, the assembly number and the engine number of said car, and take some picture. Then have those picture posted, and "Voilà".
Seems that somebody doesn't want these things cleared, which is probably not good for either the seller, as the sales price will be probably less than expected, or the future owner, or both of them.
In the future, unless the thing is cleared, there will always be a veil of doubt about any chassis numbered 20005. Matthias has to amend "the book" and put a "caveat" against n° 20005...

 

Quoted directly by Forza?

The countdown's on.

I'll guess $65K reserve, someone will meet it but ebay sale won't go through, it'll sell off ebay.

 

My educated guess is that the reserve is $85K.

BTW- I phoned Froza a few minutes ago and got the voice mail, I declined to leave a message. I subsequently have e-mailed the generic email address requesting photos or at least numbers. I am eagerly anticipating a response. Part of me kinda hopes that this car has a bit of an ugly underside so the price might not be so "rediculously" high. It would make a cool driver.

 

The stamping on the RH frame of the engine compartment is the full "Frame design number" followed by the 5 digit VIN, and then you have to start looking for alterations, restamping etc.

I also would not put it past Ferrari to actually "mess up" and build two of the same VIN, although I don;t know of any documented cases of that.........in a SREET car....

 

20005 is correct IMO for this year, as presented.

 

@ $57.6K, 2 hours and 16 minutes to go.

 

Reserve still not met....

 

Bidders:13 Bids:32 Time left:1 hour 6 mins 1 sec Duration:10 days

For whatever any of this is worth... The current high bidder has 0 feedback and this is the first item the bidder has ever bid on. The current high bid has edged out the previous high bid by $100.00.

 

Well, kinda ended like we expected, reserve not met at $65,100...there were at least 2 bidders willing to go up to $65,000 with unresolved questions regarding the car. Now let's see if we can get those numbers...Then the real purchasing will begin.

 

Actually, I am astonished the car bid that high with the numbering issues, especially when there has been no apparent effort on the seller's side to show the facts. I think there are a few other things that have been said about the car that may not be correct. My own dry-sump glass car is about 100 chassis numbers later than this one (20101) and it also has black cam covers. I was told when I bought the car almost 25 years ago that it was part of a factory "Sprint Pack" that included the dual exhaust. Somewhere I have a factory photo with a 308 motor on a stand with the black cam covers. They certainly look like factory covers and paint. My car also has dual exhaust and it is not an Ansa aftermarket, it is a Ferrari part with the metal tags showing Ferrari part numbers; the fiberglass rear valence also looks 100% factory and has two openings for the exhaust. I think at least some late glass dry sump cars got dual exhaust at the factory. Mine's black/tan and, as far as I know, nobody else has one with the same vin number!

 

Someone with the dough didn't like metallic blue.

 

Someone with the dough doesn't like the chassis number issue!

 

Weird...I don't get it.
I understand that the car may be sold later outside E-Bay, yes.
But if the seller is adamant that this is 20005, why not post pictures and numbers to clear the issue and his position ? By not clearing the issue, he is complicating the future of the car as an investment.
And yes, for less than 85.000 $, that car would sure make a nice street racer.

 

Jonathan,

This is interesting to me; if your car is Dry-sump, then it is of "Euro" origins, as the American Market "Vetroresinas" were wet-sump. But, as far as I know, those wet-sump american vetroresinas do have the four pipe exhaust straight from the factory when delivered.
Euro "Vetroresinas" usually have the single-pipe exhaust, as almost every other carbed steel cars did later.
As far as I know, the four pipe exhaust on european "Vetroresinas" was proposed by dealers, but not by the factory itself; anyway, you don't see many "Vetroresinas" with the four-pipe exhaust over here.
But, as the factory was bolting four pipe exhausts on cars manufactured for the american market, they must have access to some if needed...

 

My car is definitely dry sump and of Euro origin- I have all the original importation paper work. It was brought in by an individual and was never brought into US compliance (this is common on personally imported vehicles; I also have a very late carb Boxer in totally Euro specification originally purchased new in Buenos Aires). I am pretty sure this exhaust was NOT installed by any dealer, as it is not the typical aftermarket Ansa setup; as noted earlier, the rear valence is also specific to the two outlet exhaust. I really think some late glass Euro cars left the factory with dual exhaust and black cam covers. I don't remember the part no. off the top of my head, but I did take it off the dual exhaust at some point in the past and the exhaust is a Ferrari part (but NOT the one that bolts to the thermal reactor setup US cars had).

 

That matching rear valence 'does it' for me...that's interesting.

"Never say 'never' is the rule with Ferraris, up to a point in time.

 

Only a percentage of Ferrari people are signed up on Ferrari chat. A lot of owners don't even know this site exist, which I've even found surprising. That being said, a lot of people with "dough" might not even be aware there is a chassis number issue. Also, a lot of people have too much money for their own good to even care.

 

I was kinda referring to myself with my post....but honestly, you would have to do a little research before paying twice the "going rate" for a 30 year-old car, right? Maybe someone with too much money and not enough sense who gets caught up in the auction experience? I am still waiting for a response from Forza. Ill call again tomorrow if I find time.

 

Thanks for the answer, Jonathan; as Big Tex said, "never say "never" with Ferrari is a very valid principle"; there are rules, and there are also exceptions to the rules.
Interesting, because "Vetroresinas" with four pipe exhausts are not common here.
A carbed Boxer...gosh! What a car...

Best

 

Four pipe exhausts are uncommon on a European 308 vetroresina not only because they came with a single tip exhaust (which has its own unique sound) but more importantly, someone with good enough taste to own 308 Vetroresina likely has the good sense to keep the single tip exhaust and corresponding valance. It's just so clean and cool.

Great color, great car. Unfortunately, I checked the sofa and there isn't an extra $85K in the cushions to cover the purchase price!

It's definitely on the bucket list though.

Cheers!

 

Hi Keith,

It's true that usually the "Vetroresinas" you see in Europe do still have their single exhaust, but you'll see also a fair proportion of cars with the four pipes...the subject of our discussion was wether the four pipes one was a factory option, or only installed later by the dealers?
What always surprises me is that a fair number of these nice "little rockets on wheels" have been modified, adapted to track use, neglected, etc...so the actual pool of cars kept in OEM condition (and with single pipe exhausts...) is very small; hence their prices.

Best,

 

It is interesting to note that if you look in the 1975 Ferrari parts book for the 308 GTB, there is only one exhaust for the car and it is the single tipped version.

If people were buying the 4 tipped exhaust for the Euro cars as an option, it must have been offered after the car was launched. Perhaps Euro customers were buying the exhausts ANSA was building for the US cars independently and modifying the valence accordingly.

Bill Noon provided me with some insights into the design of the single tipped exhaust for the 308 GTB and it was very clever and deliberate. If my memory serves me correctly, he mentioned that Abarth played a key role in designing the single tipped exhaust for the car.

I went for a ride in single tipped, Euro vetroresina a few years back and was magical.

Keith

 

Keith,

I would also suspect that the "four pipe" is the same that ANSA built for the U.S market cars. Valance of Euro cars with the four-pipe as an option (whether Factory, or dealer proposed) is usually not modified: you still see the half-circle hole on the driver's side for the single-pipe exhaust, but the four pipe is just bolted on its place, so the half-circle stands proud and empty above the four pipe exhaust...there is a picture of car fitted like this, a yellow one, in Keith Bluemel's book.

best