Starting issue

I have a 1981 Mondial. After driving over 30 minutes. Normal engine temp 190 degrees. Parking the car, then waiting about 40-60 minutes, my car acts like it has a dead battery. If I let it set for a couple of hours it starts fine.
I have a new optima red top battery. My car has about 12k miles.
Charles

 

Genericly, most fuel injected "hot start" problems tend to either be a sensor issue or a fuel pressure regulator/fuel accumulator/fuel check valve issue.

Sometimes, it's just a car with a fuel/air mixture that is set too lean. Worst case would probably be a dying fuel pump (less likely than the others above).

I have no idea about the causes for carbed cars, though.

The older Mondials tend to have a problem with the fuel pump fuse holder...jiggling the fuse holder by removing and then re-installing the fuel pump fuse often gets you right back running again.

Several Mondial owners have rewired their fuel pump fuses outside of the fuse box to fix this issue.

I'd suggest that you remove/re-install your fuel pump fuse, first. If that doesn't fix it, then if you are running lean (light colored exhaust tips) enrich your mixture a bit.

Then work up from those "free" fixes through the fixes that cost progressively more (e.g. fuel pressure regulator, fuel accumulator, fuel pump, etc.).

 

After driving for 30 to 40 minutes and letting the car set for 30-40 minutes. The engine will not turn over(like a dead battery). If I let the car set for a couple of hours, it cranks and starts fine.
Does it sound like a grounding issue, starter going bad(12K miles).
Thanks
Charles

 

It sounds like a high resistance connection at the ignition switch, fuse box, subframe connector or the solenoid itself.

Best check is Fatbillybob's remote starter switch idea. Buy and inexpensive remote starter switch at Sears, hook it to the battery connection at the starter solenoid and the trigger wire (small gauge) from the ignition switch and when it does not start, push the button. If it works, you need a remote relay (Ford generic) to bridge those connections without going back and forth from the starter to the front of the car (fusebox).

When you say it acts like a bad battery, you mean that the starter either clicks or does nothing, but all the other dash lights and other accessories work, right?

-Peter (discovered a hot start problem on my t Coupe today. Won't spin over. Turned the A/C off and it did crank over. Battery is fine. Let it sit and it's fine. I'm sure it's a cruddy connection. Stabilant 22 to the rescue!)

 

mondial t. starts in the garage no problem. drive it across town and park it for 15 mins and it acts like the battery is dead. some dash lights come on and that's about it. turn the key a few times and if you are lucky it will decide to fire up.

has anyone decided on the true cause of this hot start problem?

 

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327628

 

thanks Dave. I read the post but still did not find a definitive diagnosis, just more guesses. did I miss something? do i assume it is the solenoid, or relay, or fuse 9, or ground strap?

 

Ej- With the problem you describe, there is no perfect diagnosis. Several problems can give the same symptoms. All the electrons are not getting where they are supposed to go. If you want it fixed perfectly, take it to a good Ferrari mechanic and let him have at it. May cost a bit, but he will fix your problem.

Ferrari of Atlanta has some really good technicians.

Incidentally, since Optima sold to Johnson Controls, the quality of the batteries has not been the same, although I doubt that is your problem.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

As other stated, have a go at the ground.
Always use the best quality cable you can, use star washers.
If your ground cable has any insulation melted back around the connectors chances are it's time for replacement. Check all ground continuity throughout the chassis.

Hope this helps

 

Bookapro - I was the OP of the other thread and I don't think I got a definitive answer as to what my problem was either. I can say for sure though that after I replaced the #9 fuse I haven't had any no start issues (so far). Keep in mind though I replaced several ground cables, eliminated the battery isolation switch, and cleaned contacts on the battery and the starter first. I think as our cars age problems such as corrosion, bad connections, and worn out cables in various parts of the electrical system can have a cumulative effect until the end result is a car that won't start reliably. Once that happens you might need to correct several problems before your car will start.

 

A lot of cars of this era have voltage drop issues at the starter especially when hot. Installing a separate relay to supply full battery voltage usually fixes it. Another common one is the solenoid shaft in the starter binding due to wear or corrosion. Your local Ferrari mechanic should be able to repair both easily enough.

 

I had the same problem in the 512TR. Part of the resistance in the ignition to solenoid circuit came from the old car alarm kill switch spliced into the circuit in 1994 with crimp connectors, some came from the harness to solenoid connection. Beyond that is way too much trouble to trace. It would work sometimes hot, sometimes cold, but was always a no-start at the most embarassing times. A jump from the starter 12v to the solenoid always started her up.
I finally got aggravated enough to rig up a solenoid as is often suggested. So far, 2000 miles and no more starting woes.
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Sorry it been a long summer.... We pulled the starter today and cleaned up a small amout of corrosion. After a good drive the car still would not start. Then we pulled out the relay for the ignition switch. Now it appears to start perfect hot, with no relay.

So, is this the #9 refered to earlier? I did relace this relay with a plastic one earlier that made no difference. But with no relay... BAM! It starts.

What does this ignition relay do? Can i leave it out?

Time to dig out my wiring diagrams again.....

 

ok so a few months ago we checked the starter and it was fine. yesterday I pulled the battery and had it tested. all good there. I even tried new ground strap and bypass of the battery shutoff knob. same results so I put it all back as normal.

then I ran across a post on the 348 side http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160866&highlight=hot+start+problem+battery

it talks about a Bosch wr1 relay kit. apparently this is a common issue not only with ferraris but with many cars. this kit gives ou what you need to add a relay at the starter solenoid. you connect the current wire from ignition to this to complete the circuit. effectively preventing the voltage drop that happens when hot.

I ordered one from rock auto. will install it in a couple weeks and let you know. but based on everything I have read this is the recommended solution. the kit makes it easy for $20, but you could probably make your own as described above for less.

 

While trouble shooting a starting issue on my 93 Mondial T (It turned out to be worn solenoid contacts) I noticed what I consider an excessive voltage drop when cranking between the battery positive terminal and the stater positive lug. I am seeing about a 1.5 volt drop - excessive for the guage of the wire (35 mm^2) running between the positive terminal of the battery and the starter. The connection at the battery and starter is good and clean. But I noticed form the parts manual that the wire between the battery and the starter is not one continuous piece but two pieces. There is a terminal block connecting the two as well as the alternator positive output. Does anyone one know where this terminal block is located so I can check the connections there? Engine compartment?