THE F70 (LaFerrari) Thread

I agree with you, it will interesting to see who 'must' meet these qualifications. I guarantee you that many buyers will not have to meet these qualifications, but they will still get a car. Some animals are more equal then others after all. As I said there are more direct routes of getting a car at MSRP, however they aren't cheap.

 

Starting from your last question, perhaps just one. That would go to Ioannis Vardinoyiannis a.k.a. Jigger, a.k.a. Mr Ferrari in Greece. He owns the central Ferrari dealership, as well as one of the two oil refining companies of the country (the other one is State owned), and a huge fleet of cargo and tanker ships as well as an F40, an F50 and an Enzo. Panathinaikos FC too, football fans will have heard of it!

Don't get me started on that arse that Polemarchakis is! He dares not show his face around there any more! That was gross lying as were the statistics submited by Simitis that entered the country in the Euro****, the audit that Karamanlis Jr ordered and Alogouskoufis of the LSE fame delivered and dug us in even deeper **** and finally the mayhem that the poor son of Andreas Papandreou, Yiorgos brought on the country.

I take offence when a very rich person on the other side of the Pond makes comments about a place he has only seen as a tourist at best!

 

Time for round three!!!!!!!!

 

The car has already been shown to some people, more private viewings will take place in August.

 

You still haven't answered my question.

Greek 10 year debt is quoted right now at 24.4710% on my Thomson Reuters.

You want to buy some?

As for your contention that Greece's problems are the fault of Mr Polemarchakis as opposed to the fact that Income tax receipts as a percentage of (Greece) GDP are only 4.7%, the lowest in the eurozone and less than half the 10% in the UK, because for some people in Greece, what they actually earn and what they put on their tax forms are often different figures, I still don't see it.

Last year, Horst Reichenbach, head of the EU taskforce offering technical help to the Greek government, said the amount of unpaid tax was estimated to be "in the order of 60bn euros [£49.49bn]. Is there something Horst said that isn't true?

As an aside I'm a major share holder in several Greek Shipping firms and have spent many hours discussing these very issues with them and I haven't found that they disagree with my thoughts.

The saddest thing about Greece to me is that the young people's future there has been obliterated by the reckless actions of older Greek polititions who sadly have forgotten what the Bard said.

"The Fault dear Brutus is not in the stars of which we are underlings but in ourselves."

After the American debacle at Hamburger Hill, something I was arrested for trying to prevent, I remember what another wise person Pogo said echoing the Bard's words:

"We have met the Enemy and He is Us."

I'm glad that you seem to agree that the number of New Enzo's that will be bought in Greece will be low. It's good to find common ground.

 

The number of new Enzos sold in Greece will be next to zero Mr Glickenhaus.

Also, figures are distorted. Take it from me... I have lived half my life in Greece! Do not believe what they tell you over there! The reality is that the OFFICIAL unemployment rate is 22.8%, the unofficial close to 30% and in some regions it reaches 50%! These are not tax evading people, they are just hopeless people! In Greece there are some 100 really affluent families, some 700,000 public servants, some hundred thousands well paid employees of the private sector and then the poor millions of devils that try to make ends meet! Tax evasion you say? Well yes! I will give you an example: A poor self employeed that has a real income of 1000 Euros a year (circa 30k Euros turnover - Expenses) is asked to pay 500 Euros as an one off tax for the right to have a small business and then is taxed based on what he/she owns. Let's suppose that he/she has a 1.6 litre, 9 year old small car (a Ford Focus Mk1 or a VW Golf Mk IV). That is 4480 Euros in taxable income. The individual taxable income is 3000 Euros. In total, this person shall be taxed as if it had made 7480 Euros net! So, a person that made 1000 Euros has to pay some 250 Euros! And that is in the best case scenario that he/she owns a small flat to stay in without paying rent. Oh wait! The IMF-EU regency decided that this pesky owner of a 80 sq metre 30 year old flat has to pay a land tax of about 100 Euros! Petrol is also about 1.70/litre and 1.1 Euros of those go to the State as taxes! Tell me about tax evasion now Mr Jim, please do mate!

 

Income tax receipts as a percentage of (Greece) GDP are only 4.7%, the lowest in the eurozone and less than half the 10% in the UK, because for some people in Greece, what they actually earn and what they put on their tax forms are often different figures.

I think it's fair to say that the proper for forum for this is "Politics and Religion" and if a mod moves it there it will be interesting to see if other's agree with you.

 

I agree with you sir, this topic has to be moved.

Let me just say that I will accept opinions of people that live in Greece only. I am qualified to speak about the UK and Greece only and I refrain from expressing opinions about other countries that I am not familiar with. Such courtesy is also expected by me.

 

I actually live in greece, and yes those who have a lot of money ship moguls mostly doesn't show off their wealth at all, i know there are some very decent super car collections in greece but they are very well hidden, i don't think there will be any new enzo replacements here but who knows

 

I'm confused. If you really feel that way why would you express opinions of Enzo's for example. Do you own one? Have you ever driven one? Have you ever driven any car at speed on the Ring? How about an FXX? Do you own one of those? Have you ever driven one of them? You've expressed a lot of opinions about all of the above as have a number of people on FCHAT which I think is great and what FCAT is for. Anyone who wishes to expressing their opinion on anything they wish. That's what freedom of speech is about. In the case of Greece I'm particularly confused by your statement. It's OK for the rest of the World to bail Greece out of it's disastrous condition but not to have any opinion about what conditions that bailout should should have attached to it? I think it's fine if Greece doesn't want to accept those conditions or anyone's opinion of what it should do. I also think they shouldn't be surprised that if they don't accept the conditions that the rest of the World wants for bailing them out the rest of the World is going to say, Goodbye, Good Luck, God Bless.

Should you become a subscriber to Ferrari Chat I'll be happy to discuss this further in the Politics and Religion section. If not Goodbye, Good Luck and God Bless...

 

Hopefully things will work out. I really hope they do especially for the young people.

 

+1 This is a big problem, as I know several others who really want this car and have bought many new Ferraris, but were either too young when the F40 came out, and not on the "list" when the Enzo came out, but bought them anyway, these people have not been notified, and I can tell you, they are not happy.

 

I would have said the same for a lot of places but supercars end up in crazy places. Chechnya had a Reventon and there are fewer of those than any modern Ferrari!

Demand might be different for a rev vs f supercar but the display of wealth is the same.

 

I believe in this, however it shouldn't be surprising to these people that Ferrari chooses to act in this manner. It has been arrogantly so for a long time (see: Feruccio Lamborghini) and more importantly, it is an essential part of the mystique of the Ferrari brand, though a very pretentious one.

As they have before, those who are interested in purchasing one of these cars and aren't on the list will do so from flippers and independent dealers. They will pay through the ass, too, which is unfortunate for them.

In this respect Porsche has always been more democratic, and that includes their racing cars. For those of you with time in their hands, I highly recommend the Motorsport Magazine podcast with Derek Bell from a few months ago, on their website or iTunes. Derek has this wonderful story about the Group C Porsches (956, 962), which shows how they have always been democratic about selling their automobiles, probably because of their utmost conviction in their superior engineering. I have always felt that Ferrari's "qualifications lists" show that they are far more comfortable selling their cars to a particular group of people who - despite how good the car is - will wax poetic about it. Then again some of them may (laudably) develop and voice differing opinions on the cars over time, such as Mr. Glickenhaus, I guess. (Though I am simply making an assumption, and don't know if you were ever on any of these lists, Jim. Apologies if this sounds like a slight, it is not meant to be so)

 

Yeah, you see, here at Ferrarichat we have experts in bench racing and bench experts in Greece.

That stuff of the a priori/a posteriori knowledge is quite a f*cking epistemological problem, isn´t it? So let´s all forget this bullsh*t and talk about what we all like and love.

 

Re: the qualifications list, number of brand new cars bought is a criteria that ensure that the buyers´ list is made objectively. Maybe a friend of mine is a very true ferraristi and deserves to get a car, but my opinions about a friend of mine may not be the same than the opinions of a guy in Italy who I´ve never met.

The problem comes when someone gets a spot in the list just because he´s a pop star!

 

To my recollection I have never expressed an expert opinion, as I am not one - just an enthusiast, about the cars you have mentioned. In any case, I did not mean to stop anyone from expressing their thoughts. I am just pointing out that the media distort things way too much and things in Greece are not as many people think they are. The average Greek is not to blame for this crisis, the political system is just rotten. Problem is that the common man pays for everything and on top of that other nations seem to think they are doing Greece a huge favour. Some people forget that Germany had its debts deleted twice after the WW2! Greece on the other hand is only given a loan and not under favourable terms either! Same goes for Italy. Italy is actually the 2nd best country in the EU, after Germany, in terms of debt as a percentage of its GDP, yet it is loaned at a 6.5% interest rate, whereas the UK with a much higher debt is loaned at 2.5%. Go figure...

 

This sounds like the taxes on property were created because the government do not believe income tax returns eg EUR 1000 after expenses - and frankly neither do I or Horst Reichenbach

 

The government in Greece treats people as liars in principal; always has, always will. I don't blame you as apparently you have not seen how things are in Greece! But believe me, many small businesses are in the red! As for employees, there are currently people that have not been paid for 3 months or more. A lot of them live by the meagre pension of their old parents. Things are very bad!

PS: The example I gave was a real one!

Over and out with the off topic posts. I apologise for getting carried away.

 

All True.

 

the original Enzo was priced reasonably IMO, I think if Ferrari had their time again they'd of charged more (as they're doing with it's replacement) 1.5m+ is very expensive in these times where I see more people downgrading their cars, it'll be interesting to see how many people are offered cars and how many they sell.

 

So just assuming they made 500 and just assuming it was $1.5m and just assuming you were 'offered' one by the factory, and just assuming it was amazing, what would you do?

 

There will be.

 

I actually thought this was getting off post and was better under a separate one as it would be interesting to know members thoughts

 

Well, I don´t have access to the appropiate statistics, but I´d say that most people who own an Enzo, own or have owned many other absurdly expensive cars so they should be able to do some comparisons.