Once again that's taste. I used mid engined Ferrari's as daily drivers for 24 years and 240K+ miles and if I didn't like my 8C would get an Aventador for a daily. 599's and F12's don't interest me but I realize that's taste. I like the way the 8C looks but the F12 looks cut and paste to me. Once again personal taste. Bob are U 4 real? Bill Hubble in an Aventador (I'm married so I can't challenge U) and U in an AMG. (Not sure if U'r married if you are any FCHATTER U want in an AMG) I'm betting on Bill...
We're not talking about women who you want to bring home to meet Moma. We talking about the kind you meet at Club 57 in San Tropez take for a ride in your Adventador and don't bring home to meet Moma. (Not that I've done such a thing)
I like almost everything you post but, and most people would agree that with an AMG you could almost throw away most of your other rides, they are great however the sissor doors of the Lambo's are always a serious intoxicant for chicks.
I have an AMG Mercedes. A 09 SL65. It does not draw anything like the attention from women my 599 does. Willie Nelson said "Money makes women horny." I suspect he knows first hand. LOL.
Where I live, the Aventador would not be a viable daily driver due to sheer size alone. For instance, you simply would not be able to enter 80% of parking lots due to the width.
I agree...CL65 is one of my favorites. Not for chicks even though they love em, but just a great driver for the money. Depriciation after a year - they're 1/2 off.. now that's a bargain!
You get the point ! For me, Ferrari is the only car maker who still make "old fashionned " V12 front engine in that way... That way being SUPER CAR and not just GT like Aston Martin for exemple... It's harder to achieve such high performance with a front engined car than with a mid engined. (yeah I know the F12 is in fact front-mid-engine)... But the point is, this car is the traditional way of making sports or GT car... But it's not just a cool GT cars, it's a HYPER GT CAR and to me, that put the F12 on her own in a specific class where there is no opponent ! Who do front engined super car know ? Aston Martin ? Jaguar ? Maserati ? Thay are all awesome and great, but not touching the F12 in therms of performance... Lambo, Pagani, Koenigsegg, Gumpert and all the other are mid engined cars... To me, the only other brand who is in a class of it's own is Porshe, because they stick to their formula, making rear engined cars (off course they also do front and mid now, but that's not the traditional Porshe). So my point is, I would choose the F12 because it's beautifull, it's a Ferrari, it's a V12 etc, but mainly because they do much the same as the other hyperrcar but in a classical way in it's architecture (front engine) and it's a dr Jeyckyl / mr hyde --> GT/Super car ! Like Enzo Ferrari, best shape and classic styling are from front engined car... much more smooth and not too agressive like the Lambo (I like them a lot too, don't get me wrong !
I drove a TR in NYC for years. I understand you like F12's better but the last front engine Ferrari I like was the Daytona. A 458 would fit MC and an Aventador in NYC wouldn't be an issue. I drove one in Bumper to Bumper traffic in Monterey last summer as well as at speed in the mountains and it's very usable as a daily. Either way the idea that an F12 is a bargin is silly. A GTR is a bargin. An F12 is a very expensive car that will depreciate as 599's did.
I think you miss the point. I am purely questioning whether the F12 looks cheap relative to its performance. It appears to be close to the perfromance of much more expensive cars and as such, relatively, could be seen as a bargain. Clearly no $400k car is a bargain in the literal sense but relative to its competition, should the full tests show in performance terms that its competition to be more like the Huyara etc, it just might be. That is the point and I dont believe it is 'silly. Even bargains depreciate.
+1 The "only" thing that has me amazed is the power output of 740 hp from a naturally aspirated engine in these times, but maybe Ferrari get to use a loop hole via Fiat that Pagani can't.
The GTR is cheap for it's performance. Totally stock it finished the 24 Hours of Nurburgring. The Huyara will leave an F12 far, far, behind at the Ring as would a GTR.
GTRs are cheap performance. I just sold a friends 09 ZR1 that is also cheap performance. Ferrari's are expensive performance.
cheap [tʃiːp] adj 1. costing relatively little; inexpensive; good value sort of a "bargin".
Sorry, but we are not talking about race cars but road cars in road spec driven on the road. I do agree the GTR is an incredible car for the money and that it would beat an F12 at the Ring but there is more to the world of driving than the Ring and certainly in the UK, people and indeed journos are getting tired of endless Ring comparison times that don't necessarily relate to real world driving.
Some care what Journalists think I don't. I'm talking about Street cars which both the GTR and the Huyara and F12 are. The Ring is a Public road without speed limits that is sometimes used for races. Having driven it I feel it's much more indicative of a cars performance on the road at speed than Mag comparo's. The GTR is a huge bargain, based on performance compared an F12, Huyara, or Veyron but just as the F12 is in a completely different league than a GTR both the Huyara and Veyron are in a completely different league than an F12. Think of it this way. If a F12 cost as much as a Huyara would anyone buy one? Still don't see a 400K F12 as a performance bargin or as being in the same league as a Huyara or a Veyron.
The Huyara is nothing short of awesome on steroids. But, I don't think anyone would say the F12 is in competition with it. The new Enzo and the mega mac are, along with other hyper cars. The F12 is that latest iteration of the V12 front engine GT's that they've made since the 60's. Its seems today we are still arguing which is better: The Miura or the Daytona.
What makes you think that? The f12 is significantly faster than the Enzo and shouldn't have it's front ride height issue. I don't think it'll even be close with the GTR, but no idea on the Huayra as I don't think it's set a time yet? The Huayra is 3x the cost so it better be at least a little faster... 740hp N/A is no small achievement. More power with less weight than the Aventador and 50k less base price. I think the Aventador is cool, but it would appeal more to the 13yo version of me than the current 33yo version.
Based on visting HP, seeing the Huyara, and speaking to various people at the Factory I expect the Huyara's Ring Times to be under the GTR's. The Huyara will have more HP than the F12, be a lot lighter and be bred for the Ring which the F12 wasn't. I like Ring records as we hold the one for a Ferrari powered car at 6:51, which we hope to break again in September, but fully understand that many don't care about them.
