Help pick a model to invest/drive...

In one of his many threads he said something to the effect that he made a lot of threads because he's busy and he'll be back in something like a month to check on them.

 

Hope the OP reads these posts. Very valuable information. His questions have been answered very well and I hope he appreciates it.

Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy my Fcar owning experience (not expecting a profit just enjoyment).

Life is good.
Life is better driving a Ferrari.

 

I agree, I just tell everyone that it's the most fun I've ever had "losing" my money.

 

Sums it up for me....

Jedi

 

A
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Sooo...he's a died-in-the-wool,fairdinkum,straight shootin',son-of-a-gun,.....enthusiast?

 

Well this is baffling... I certainly didn't intend to come across the way that apparently I did, but i'll make one attempt to try and correct misunderstandings and reply to a bunch of people at once.

I appreciate the honest responses some have given me, i'm just trying to avoid leaving bad feelings with the remainder.

When I said investment I don't mean get rich off or what people are calling "investment grade", I mean if I spend $50k, then another $8k on maintenance, and I sell it for $62k in 3 years, i've made about 7%. Which is about what i'd make in stocks if they don't crash within 3 years and they will. I already said driving it some and making 0%, or driving it alot and having it lose value but not extreme value were fine with me. I buy a new car for $40k which is worth $20k in 3 years, so if I can do better than that, I consider that a win. Am I still going to be able to get a Testarossa for $40k in 8 years? If yes i'll just wait, honestly. It's partly fear it will climb too high even if I can afford more in the future.

Was what i've heard about the 80's/90's models finally bottoming and about to climb just like classic american cars have done incorrect?

I've heard others talk about them being definate investments, because they hit a market low then come up, like anything else of limited availability - some suggesting putting a few miles on doesn't matter as long as it's not excessive. They are like classic cars in general - I can buy a 62 Bel Air 409, drive it a bit, and it will still sell for more than I got it for because they're not making any more and people still want them. If I drive it ALOT it will drop the value though, i'm fully aware of this. What I was curious is how much do values vary with mileage on something already having bottomed to it's lifetime low spot.

I don't know how much i'd drive the Ferrari til I had one, i'm baffled how 1/2 hour on fast driving on shared track day 2-3x per year would supposedly kill it's value (I see kids abuse their cars worse on Friday nights, i'm not talking about running Le Mans... unless they are unreliable and will break once they see a track??), I already accepted i'd accept a loss of value if I drove it alot deciding the fun it had was worth it, rather than trying to hold investment value of keeping it in the garage. Plus I assumed if I got an otherwise well treated model and did some singular piece of work it needed I assumed i'd be money ahead.

To greyboxer - i'm sure the question of investing has been asked before, I just hadnt seen many people that actually do their own work post. And I thought i'd been amazingly specific with my data above. Enough to get yelled at apparently.

To the next user about being condescending for not being a 20 year old, when i've read around exotic car boards i've seen ENDLESS "unrealistic" posts of someone trying to figure out a way to afford something hopelessly beyond their means. Typically being responded to as either being a troll or a fool. The reason I can afford one now is because I DID work my a$$ off the last 15 years saving and investing. Thats why i'm looking at Ferrari's now while talking about working on them myself, that's where I come from. But 95% of the people I knew with Ferrari posters from high school never worked very hard, blew their money every weekend, and then still tried to figure out some clever scheme to afford a lifestyle way above what they should even be considering. In trying to avoid being accused of one type of trolling apparently i'm accused of a different kind, so I guess I can't win this argument.

VRsurgeon - immediate annuity for 20 years from selling a rental duplex I got out of when I expected the real estate market to go south like it has, which I had worked up to and bought myself, okay? I decided I wanted to take time off to reconsider what I really wanted to do. Job stuff is sporadic/western north dakota oil patch stuff but totally burned out on that, not on unemployment. The expensive to maintain part I assumed, I was just wondering HOW expensive... were the parts 75% of the cost or 25%... etc. That said thanks for your other advice, I was getting mixed claims from others i'd talked to.

To the rest claiming I don't even want to drive it you apparently didn't really read my post. :-/ The passion has to be balanced with what it costs vs what else I could do with it. Yeah I want to show up people at the high school reunion... because those were the people who I told i'd be driving a Testarossa in the future, they laughed, their dads bought them modified mustangs and firebirds, while I worked towards what I wanted. Yes it's a bit petty, but i'm just being honest. I'm probably not going to have it in time for 20th anniversary reunion unless I immediately jump though.

PV Dirk - it's because i'm doing one last oil patch truck driving job before I finally call that quits for being too burdensome. Hence was planning on being gone a month. And since the threads needed approval I figured they woulnd't get thru before I left again.

to PhilNotHill - yes i'm reading it. Depressingly so far, crash and burn indeed. Makes me not want to post and abandon the idea, investing in an american classic car instead or something since i've done most of my own mechanic work on those anyways. I seem to have stepped on the majority of toes as a direct result of trying not to.

 

As you note many blue collar guys own and wrench themselves

Anyone who buys a car as an investment will get burnt

If you want a Testarossa buy one BUT go in with your eyes open - read the threads in that section not only about the pleasures of ownership but also the problems - if you think they may be too much then think about another car you like the look of and read up on it

My feeling is that this forum cannot make the decision of whether to buy or which to buy for you but it sure will help with the experience thereafter

 

Ahhh now I understand. As you know.. there are many types that frequent the forums. Consider this not a discouragement but a Vetting process to see if you are truly worthy.

Will you "make" money on a testarossa? Probably not.

Will you loose thousands and thousands of dollars. Maybe.. if you crash it then you will loose $$$ but on average you'll do OK.

As a redneck owner that likes to do his own work.. at least as much of it as I can without an SD2, there is a way that you can own the car "affordably". And that sounds like a testarossa to me.

1) Download the testarossa owners manual AND workshop manual from ferraridownloads.com. Read them through completely, or as completetly as possible
2) As you probably have deduced, read through the Testarossa section here, try to go back a year or so, follow it
3) Go to Ricambiamerica.com and take a look at the prices of the parts there. This is your reference for "reasonable" new parts pricing.
4) Go to ebay and type in testarossa in the ebay motors section. This is your reference for mostly used parts prices.
5) Get to know someone, an independent mechanic in your area that has serviced ferrari's before and can service yours. Stop by and talk to them personally. Do you like them, will they work with you on the car. You WILL become good friends with them.
6) Create a list, mentally or on paper of the parts and labor needed to do major services, yearly fluid changes, shock and strut replacement and clutch replacements. Also factor in what's required for common problems with the cars. Know how this would be done on the car.

Once you've done all the above... you should be able to fix your own car and at the very least be able to ballpark what a car needs when buying and then when owning it, what might be wrong when things break. Bosch fuel injection and ignition are components based. Electrical gremlins are fun. I honed my experience with a 928.. the mother of all trainers.

When you go to buy the car you will have two choices: higher priced cars that have nothing wrong with them -or- lower priced examples that need an expensive belt change and major, or other gremlins that will need addressing. If you buy the former, it's more expensive and may loose money over time vs. the latter that if you buy cheap enough you may come out even. Key being that you can buy the latter and as a smarter consumer than the former owner that takes the car to the stealership for everything.. you know how to fix it for 1/2 to 1/5 the cost. In both cases you are probably going to come out even or with a loss on the car. The key is education. the more you know and the closer you come to being an FCar mechanic yourself, the better off you'll be. You should know what is going to be seen in a PPI. You shoudl also know what parts to buy new (mission critical) and those that you can get used. On a testarossa parts are probably going to be the killer. They're hard to come by (comparatively) and expensive.

That being said they are very expensive cars to maintain comparatively. BMW do own work vs. Ferrari that do own work. But if you are "prepared" so to speak, in the end it's just a car.. but a delicious, wonderful, sexy, fantastic experience that I doubt you will want to sell in 3 years. Again, good luck!

 

Actually...There is one car about to pass into the gates of immortality..
Investment wise..its about the only one affordable now.

1974 246 GTS....Ch and Flres especially..
They have doubled in past 2 years and show no sign of letting up.

They will be 500 g's by 2015

 

I think the only way these Ferraris will ever increase in value is if the cost of parts comes down.
Or someone starts making more aftermarket stuff.
I think that is keeping some people from ownership. I almost didnt buy a Ferrari for that very reason.
One reason I finally decided to is at least I didnt get it new when it was 120,000. I got it for under 40,000. That leaves a good amount of head room to tolerate the cost of some things since it would take alot to ever reach its original selling price.
Yes it is great that you can buy a 308 for around the 30,000 mark but the cost of parts or service is intimidating to some people.
Which personally I feel is one reason prices are kinda staying low. I may be wrong...
The 328 seems to be holding pretty steady above 308s, 348s, and even 355s. But they are kinda known as being one of the most reliable Ferraris ever.
Is that a factor I wonder?

 

Nah, wouldn't stand out enough and definitely not fast enough...lol

The OP just doesn't get it. These threads are always a real lol-fest

 

@ dreamcometrue

How long do you want to keep it?

 

I'm afraid I don't know much about the Testarossa, but perhaps you could think about a 348. Prices have pretty much bottomed out (my gut feeling from idle browsing, I've not systematically tracked them) and I've seen great examples trading in the $35-40k range. A driver's car (mechanically sound, some cosmetic signs of age) could probably be had for $32.5-35k. I really can't see reasonable condition cars exchanging hands in the high $20k range any time soon (if ever), so ones at those prices I think will need a bit of extra care in the garage. I think this might be the bottom of the market for the 348. As I'm trying to get myself into a 348, I'm hoping there isn't a climb from here on out... I'd rather not have a moving goal post to aim for.

You'll spend a fair bit on maintenance (e.g. engine out services, repairs on a 20 year old car, etc), but hopefully you won't spend more than $20k in three years on that and an example with full records shouldn't depreciate a whole lot with use - particularly if you buy it with some miles already on the clock. As always, it's sometimes difficult to ascertain how much difference there is between asking prices and actual sale prices. Of course it's an indulgence that you'll have to pay to experience and makes a terrible investment unless you consider grinning to be a return. However, I wouldn't view the cost of a 348 as all that different to the financial hit of brand new car depreciation over a three-year period as long as you keep on top of things, perhaps learn to do repairs yourself, and nothing really unlucky happens - the car has already massively depreciated so you just pay as you go (maintenance maintains value, it doesn't add it) rather than take a hit at the end upon the sale.

On the topic of maintenance... loads of people on this site do their own maintenance. Just check the model sections and there are many threads on people undertaking their own servicing or repairs.

Finally, I wouldn't anticipate it being the sort of car that is easy to sell quickly if you intend to part with it in a few years. When you come to sell, if the right buyer comes along, you'll get what it's worth - unfortunately for sellers, it's a bit of a controversial model with enthusiastic supporters (like me) and venomous detractors (like the current President of Ferrari himself, Luca di Montezemolo). Consequently, I wouldn't expect it to be easy to shift in a hurry and you can often see the same cars for sale for some time before they finally find enthusiastic new owners. Trade in values at a dealer will be very poor, so you'll have to sell privately if you don't want to get hammered.

Important Note: I've not yet owned a Ferrari myself and am far from being an expert, though I have followed the 348 with interest as it is my favourite Ferrari. Please spend a couple of months doing your own reading up if you want to go the 348 route. Also, selling and retaining intrinsic value in the car is also not something I have spent much time considering because, when I finally get into my own 348 one day, I plan on keeping it indefinitely and driving it often without a care in the world for resale values. Hopefully I'll get there.

Whatever you end up doing... good luck!

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Your postings are much too long and they are boring. sorry to say that but its true.
I dont think you got the point in owning a Ferrari.
try anything else!

 

NFW is a sub $100K Ferrari going to be any kind of "investment." You have to insure, store, service, maintain and inevitably repair at least some small thing and after those expesnes, your sales price will not possibly cover these costs plus acquisition. Period.

The only possible return on a Ferrari is to go way upmarket, as in one of the supercars or an Enzo-era car, and you are looking at $500K+. At his point, the costs listed above are a much smaller percentage of the car value and apprecitation can cover them.

Still very speculative.

At the end of the day, get one because you love it, not for any financial reason.

 

We all have these stories. In the 80s, I had two Shelby mustangs ('68 GT-500KR conv and '69 GT-500) and they were both bought and sold for less than $10,000 each. They were just cool mustangs.