Procoaches...can you fix the reasonable man?

Truth!

I'll only add that my mentor, one Bruce MacInnes, one of the first (and still current) instructors at Skip Barber Racing Schools, has always maintained that greatness CAN be taught and that taught drivers that are open to learning can beat talented drivers who are not.

My experience over the last five years with nearly 300 clients would support that...

 

Bruce is a great instructor. I recall being reluctant to get all the way out in the middle of big bend at LRP carrying enough speed to rotate the car. Bruce's response, delivered with an earnest face was..."Well, you don't have to carry that speed out there if you're not comfortable....someone has to come last.".

Next session, I learned to rotate the car out at the edge of the track....

 

newest article by Lloyd, these are actually pretty good:

http://jalopnik.com/5932857/how-to-drive-a-bad-handling-car-fast?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_twitter&utm_source=jalopnik_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

 

I think that's a silly argument. are you saying that the weekend warrior in a spec racer ford is more "committed" than the factory Porsche/Corvette/BMW guys driving (loosely) production based cars in ALMS?

I would think from track day guys all the way up through club racing, amateur racing, lower level pro/feeder series, and professional series like GA or ALMS, the vast majority of the road racers in North America are using some form of race car that is derived from a road car.

 

I'm not trying to be thick, I really don't follow your argument here.

 

well I guess if it makes sense to you it's all good

 

It makes me laugh when people say only those with stupid amounts of money (billionaires?!) can afford Pro's to help them setup their car or help them driver better. A "Pro" costs less than a set of tires for a day, do the math.

-mike

 

X 10000

When you look at the costs of running a race car pro help is a no brainer. Every lap costs serious money and you want to make sure that you make the most of it.Too bad that most racers only want to spend on the car and think that they can learn on their own. A false economy if there ever was one.

 

Every driver plateaus or gets "stuck," no matter what their experience level. For less than a set of ALMS Michelins, for one day I can evaluate, distill and through an intelligent conversation with the driver, pick a course of action that will not only improve their on-track performance but leave them with pearls of knowledge that will continue to grow as they add experience. Whether I'm there or not. Mike, you know. You've taken advantage of some great resources where you are.

My client's time is their most precious commodity. Nearly every one of them isn't in the car near as much as they'd like to. I can leverage their time very effectively. I have the data to prove it.

More on that later.

 

FML, I'm at the cottage and really trying to avoid opening up the laptop. Hate typing on the darn iPhone and really want to participate here. Will have to wait...

 

white people problems

 

ah, the ricer drift driving style.

loose is fast yo!

 

I think that there is a different kind of driver. A driver who basically understands that the corner about to be taken, has several to many paths through it, and that some paths are faster than others, some have lower needs for inputs into the car to retain control, and some lead to not finishing the race. So he chooses among the faster paths with least inputs.

This is just like the noise margin. The finer the inputs the driver reads (the lower the noise floor) the closer to the edge a driver can safely take the car. The finer a driver can apply inputs the he car to keep the tires at their peak traction levels, the faster the car can go.

Drivers like Jimmy Clark had abilities beyond this in that he could bring the car home after winning the race with tires ready for another 1/2 race distance, brake pads ready for another race, nothing broken or bent in th suspension or chassis;

Yet his partner would return with a hunk of junk (in second place) needing a complete rebuild of almost every component (only slight exageration).

 

The instant you think you are fast is when you start to slow. Every car, every track, every lap is a learning experience. In a given race the car is likely to change. Being as fast as you can requires objective input, consistency and confidence in execution, and I am afraid some level of skill. I've had coaching and just been unable to consistently execute sometimes. You can teach a lot, and I drive a lot to help make up for limited talent, but that last little bit takes talent. That said, I think you can teach enough so that the coached driver is ready to pounce on a mistake or excessively cocky talented driver, but talent eventually wins.

Talent plus an open and learning mind that takes coaching is a force to be reckoned with!

 

No.

Skip Barber Racing School, over the last thirty years, has proven that coached inclination, coupled with dedication and consistent execution, beats raw talent EVERY TIME.

That's the truth. True talent is extremely rare. But aptitude and discipline is not rare. Coupled with targeted goals and proper execution, a good driver can beat talented but un-coached drivers most every time. Relying on talent wads up a LOT of race cars...

Just look at the South American kids at SBRS racing series...

 

you mean all the Venezuelan kids playing with Uncle Hugo's money?

 

Hahaha! True dat!

Look at Pastor. Talent will take you only so far, but if you don't have the respect of your peers, your name is mud. At that level...

 

Read my last sentence; I think we are largely on the same page. But I also think you misunderstood what I meant by talent. Included in that is not only raw car control and cooordination, but discipline and dedication. Absent from my view of raw talent is outside instruction.

I don't know much about some of the past greats like Fangio and Nuvolari, bit as far as I know there was not the availabiltiy of schools and recognized coaching in their day, so in my view talent is what made them great.

Maybe in today's world they could not keep up with a talentless but well-taught driver. An interesting idea.

Are you saying that with sufficient coaching I could be F1 world champ? If so, perhaps we should get together and work up a plan! It needs to have a big bonus if you are right and big hickey if not.

 

I think of talent as being innate. Great talent nearly unheard of. No, no F1 world champs here.

I agree with you that concentration and dedication, lifelong and to the exclusion of worldly diversions can take one very far. I agree you need a special talent to truly excel, you can count the number of truly excellent drivers...

I look at Jerry Nadeau, who beat JPM in Barber Saab, slept in his diesel Oldsmobile outside a shop he swept floors for in Mooresville, ultimately driving for Rick Hendrick in Sprint Cup.

Fangio and Moss had the benefit of collaboration from Lemans and Mille Miglia winner Peiro Taruffi (The Technique of Motor Racing, 1957) and Taruffi was a degreed engineer.

The general level of even the most advanced "track day" nd club racing adriver is relatively low. Therefore, the improvement wrought by just a few focused and data supported goals generally can be pretty dramatic, hence Alex Lloyd's premise.

If you can overcome the limits imposed by being "a reasonable man," you can break through to yet another performance platau well advanced. I do it every day with drivers. It works.

 

I agree, but I see coaching as being much more collaborative than most "coaches."