308 ignition goes dead when I try to start her. | FerrariChat

308 ignition goes dead when I try to start her.

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by vogel, Sep 9, 2011.

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  1. vogel

    vogel Karting

    Jun 21, 2001
    126
    Powder Springs, GA
    Full Name:
    Charles Byrd
    Hello all. My 308 seems to be in good shape except for trying to start it. The battery is fine, connections good, fuel pump hum is strong, but when I turn the key to actually start it, everything goes dead. I have checked the fuses, relays and such, but cannot figure it out. Any advice?
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    How are you testing the battery to say it is "fine"....

    Your symptoms sound exactly like a weak battery failing when loaded up, an almost dead one will power the fuel pump and dash lights.
     
  3. CaptOharry

    CaptOharry Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2009
    755
    Green Cove Spgs FL
    Full Name:
    Harry Welch
    Sounds like a Ground problem.
     
  4. vogel

    vogel Karting

    Jun 21, 2001
    126
    Powder Springs, GA
    Full Name:
    Charles Byrd
    I have had the battery tested, charged, and also, I have added a second battery with jumper cables. I have noticed it not starting sometimes when the engine is warmed up, it would go "dead" for a try or two, then start. Now it seems that it will not start at all.
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Okay, sounds like the solenoid is playing up on you then, and binding.
     
  6. CaptOharry

    CaptOharry Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2009
    755
    Green Cove Spgs FL
    Full Name:
    Harry Welch
    When you put both Batteries together were they in series or parallel? If by chance they were hooked up wrong you could have fried the Relay.
     
  7. vogel

    vogel Karting

    Jun 21, 2001
    126
    Powder Springs, GA
    Full Name:
    Charles Byrd
    Thanks, I'll check the solenoid.
     
  8. DGS

    DGS Six Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    60,052
    MidTN
    Full Name:
    DGS
    #8 DGS, Sep 9, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
    Ah. I had that issue with my 328, when I first got it.

    Turned out that the battery lead clamp would get loose on the battery post when heated by the radiator.
    (Difference in expansion rate. It would check out as tight when cold, but it'd get loose when warm.)

    I filed down the gap in the clamp, cleaned the clamp and the battery posts, applied dielectric gel, and torqued everything down. It's been fine since.
     
  9. PDX_214

    PDX_214 Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2010
    767
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    J
    Sounds like a bad battery. Even if it's charged and the alternator is working it can fail under load.
     
  10. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
    1,418
    Tequesta, FL
    Full Name:
    Paul Delatush
    Also check the battery ground disconnect if you have one. Mine is located next to the left side head light. Open the front lid and you should see it by the rail.
     
  11. ME308

    ME308 Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,542
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #11 ME308, Sep 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  12. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

    May 31, 2003
    11,479
    Lewisville, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Guess
    +1 I have seen several ignition switches over the year that when you turn it to the start position it loses contact to keep power to the ignition and fuel systems.

    To test this is quite easy hook a volt meter up to a part of the ignition system that is hot in the run position. If you lose voltage in the start position the switch is bad.
     
  13. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    876
    Los Angeles/Florida
    Your igintion switch module as shown in the previous post is the weakest part of the iginition system that I have found over the years..They are plastic and wear out..I'm on my third one in a dozen years..My solution (for me) was to buy a standard four position switch and relocate to an appropriate position and eliminate your old one completely..$20 and 30 minutes. Be sure to unlock the steering mechanism with the old key, or you will find yourself driving in circles..this fix has worked perfectly in my case for years..I hope that this is of some help to someone..Thank you very much. Jacques.
     
  14. vogel

    vogel Karting

    Jun 21, 2001
    126
    Powder Springs, GA
    Full Name:
    Charles Byrd
    Thanks guys. I will check all of these things. It is driving me crazy. I do not trust her out, and pushing off a Ferrari is just not cool at all....
     
  15. ME308

    ME308 Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,542
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Michael
    well, 9 months later ... ;)
     
  16. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    16,070
    Gold Coast, Aust.
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    Patrick
    Hi Vogel

    I've only recently joined the forum - had my QV for 3 yrs, but had a GT4 in the eighties and had the exact smae problem. You've probably figured it out by now, but here's the answer:

    When you turn to the start position, the ign contact in the switch opens - I think it's a faulty design, but it's due to flex in the barrel, I think. What you do is when you start, don't torque the key so hard - if it just engages the start position, the ign contacts stay closed. If you heel it over hard (like when it's frustrating the sh*t out of you and you're WILLING the bloody thing to start), you'll get bupkiss.

    I bought my GT4 before the eighties boom (in fact, knocked back a 246 that was 10 grand cheaper, to get the V8!), and, as a young 25 year old that mortgaged my soul the get a Ferrari, brought it to work to show my mates - cranked it over until the battery was flat, and had to be push started - oh the embarrassment!

    Good luck

    Patrick
     
  17. vogel

    vogel Karting

    Jun 21, 2001
    126
    Powder Springs, GA
    Full Name:
    Charles Byrd
    Thanks. I cannot determine if it is in the switch or not. I have tried turning it in many different ways, sometimes it cranks, sometimes it goes dead, nothing. I cannot find a proper layout of the connectors on the back to test them, if you have that I would appreciate it.
     
  18. ME308

    ME308 Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,542
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #18 ME308, Jul 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2005
    3,257
    UK
    I'd also start by looking at all the main connectors round the battery & the starter - as someone said above, sounds like a ground problem.

    Measure the voltage accross the battery as well. If its less than 12 then its got a bad cell.
     
  20. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    The functional way that they should work is:

    key "on" = terminal 30 (always +12V) connected to terminal 15

    Key "start" = terminal 30 connected to terminal 15 and terminal 50

    So connect the red wire to the light blue wire (= key "on") = the dash gauges should illuminate, then touch the white white to the red+light blue combination (= key "start") = the starter motor should spin and the engine starts, then release the white wire after the engine starts but keep the red and light blue wires connected (= key "on") = engine should stay running. If this manual method always works, you can be pretty sure that the ignition switch is bad (if all of the connection seem OK, but you still get the "goes dead" symptom).
     
  21. vogel

    vogel Karting

    Jun 21, 2001
    126
    Powder Springs, GA
    Full Name:
    Charles Byrd
    Thanks a lot. I will try this asap.
     

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