Replicas....

Interesting point, but I don't feel it really applies. A Ferrari with non OEM parts is still a Ferrari. A women with fake boobs is still a women. A non Ferrari is well a non Ferrari....boobs put onto a body can be, well they can be a man.

 

Problems with this logic:

1. Fake Cobras aren't acceptable, at least to many of us. A fake is fake.
2. There may be "ways around it", but ultimately you're either constructing something original or taking someone else's design. You can infringe on someone's copyright without using their badge. For example, if you build and sell Merc 300SL fakes with your own badge, Mercedes' lawyers will properly be knocking on your door.
3. Not being able to afford something is not justification for theft (at worst) or lack of originality, and the argument that someone must have a car that looks like a Cobra or California Spyder isn't all that compelling.

I think the "poser" description is very accurate, because the car in question is posing as something it isn't. The driver is also posing as an owner of a car other than the one he owns. I can't think of a more literal, ironclad application of the term.

 

A big plus one to Bullfighter.

 

As a kit Cobra builder and owner I strongly disagree with you both. For many folks (like myself) a Cobra replica is the only possibility for them to build / own / drive an otherwise unreachable piece of history. We don't pretend they are original Shelby's, we just love driving them. It's not about image or posing, it's about building and driving a raw raging beast. I'm a realist and know that I will never be able to afford a "real" original.

Some folks who could afford an original would not want to risk it on the track, so they build or buy replicas for tracking. You haven't spent any time around kit Cobra owners, if you had you'd understand that the majority are enthusiasts and car guys rather than poseurs.

In addition, Shelby tried the copyright route and lost in the courts...

Phil - Proud builder, driver, and owner of FFR3785K at 2200lbs with a 400HP SBF

 

I don't enter my car in shows, I'm not a waxer, I'm a driver.

But to retort, any show I've ever walked through has recognized classes for kit or replica vehicles. Most folks don't care if it's a "fake" or real, they appreciate the cars for the time and effort involved in building them, and in most cases the highly unique and beautiful result. One of the fantastic things about building your own car is the level of personalization you can bring to it. I'm not talking about carpet, paint, tint, etc. I'm talking about mounting your pedals closer together like I did to facilitate heel and toe, modifying the footboxes to accommodate taller drivers. If you really dig in you will see some amazing talent.

Have you ever seen Coupe Chuck's webpage? http://home.comcast.net/~chuckcobra/ He took tons of measurements from an original Cobra Daytona Coupe and recreated one from scratch. He hand hammered every body panel, built his own frame jig, etc. Your general view of kit or "fake" cars does not do justice to the craftsmanship involved in many of these efforts.

 

I am going to end up in the middle on this one....

My Cobra replica experience has been priceless, because it was a project with my father. That and I don't really care what anyone thinks, I drive the car and enjoy it for what it is. 99.9999% of people love it (the other 0.0001% are on this board), most know its a fake, and I never conceal for a second that it was a kit we built.

I think if you try to build a replica 250 you are going to hate it:
(1) No one in the Ferrari world will like it, many will hate it. You will not be accepted into the group. Sorry, true.
(2) As stated, there is more to a Ferrari than just the appearance, there is something tangible to the magic, and that is precisely why the mystique has been maintained. You will NOT replicate this.
(3) You will not build a Ferrari powered replica within your budget. Period. Just the drivetrain will consume your budget.

I repeat: you are NOT going to replicate the magic. Many companies with huge budgets and decades of car building experience have tried and failed.

My suggestion is to drive as many cars as you can. 550s, 575s, 355s, 360s, TRs, 512TR (my favorite for classic feel), 400s, or my other vintage fave: 365 GTC4 (just in your budget).
And drive a replica similar to what you think you want. I think that will send you down the right road.

And by the way, I don't get how anybody likes fake breasts. How is it any different than a man getting fake pecs?

 

Here's the deal

Every fake Cobra out there diminishes the excitement and value of a real one. You see one go down the street and 99% of the time, you say -- "oh, another replica. Yawn."

I have no problem in people building their own cars. But, why do you have to put a Cobra body on it? It's still the same car under that body that you drive. Why does it have to be something of what it is not?

Someday, they may have robots to have sex with. But, I don't think they will ever have the same appeal as sleeping with another human being.

It's the same with replicas. Yes, it feels good. But, it's also a phony.

 

I appreciate that hours of effort are sometimes put into these things but I've never liked replicas. Goes for watches, furniture, clothes, art on the wall, even houses. If I had a new house built, it'd be to my design & not some fake old repro style.

So, absolutely the same with cars. It's not a question of money. It's a question of respect for the original and the wasted opportunity to do something new & yours, not someone else's.

 

Thats a little harsh. There are plenty of Ferrari replicas built on a Ferrari chassis with a ferrari engine. Why are these not looked down on? Why is it a Ferrari can be a rebody and its ok? Take a number of cars that are good and gawd at on this site, that are not even close to being the original car? Is it not the same thing?

Take the california for example....beautiful car, many Ferrari's were chopped up to make replicas of that car, knowbody seems to make too much of a stink about it, why is that? Is it not ripping off and original design? Is it not a copy? Just because its built on a Ferrari chassis dose not make it any less of a fake car.

I feel as long as the replica is a good representaion of the car being copied, and it is not represented as a real Ferrari or what ever...then whats the big deal??

Would any of you be able to afford a real california, or an original cobra? Even if you could would you even be able to purchase it??

 

Ummmmm. . .

I've said it before, with regard to replicating 288 GTOs on 308's. . . but it goes for 250 GTOs out of GTE's, GTOs from Lussos. . . whatever: Your Ferrari is special because it's a Ferrari. Don't turn a genuine Ferrari into a kit car!

It isn't, far as I'm concerned.

"Good and gawd at?" I don't know what this means, or what you're referring to.

Oh, well. . . I hate all fakes except the replicas of the 250 California.

No, wait. Just kidding; I hate those too.

Because it's phony.

No, I can't.

Therefore, I'm going to buy a phony California, a replica Cobra, a phony Hublot Big Bang watch, a manmade crystal that is fraudulently represented as the Hope diamond, a doublewide prefab house built to resemble (sort of) Fallingwater, and a pack of Swisher Sweets re-labeled as Cohibas.

Naw. I like my, ahem, genuine 308 and my Seiko better.

 

Sorry, I haven't seen original Cobra values sagging at all, and everyone I've ever run into that knows what a Cobra looks like is usually pretty excited to see one (even a "fake" one) and even more excited when you take them for a spin. (Which you can do because you're not risking a multi 100 thousand or million dollar limited collectible)

If you don't like them, don't own one. I've met some fantastic talented people that own "fakes" and some nice folks that own Ferraris. I enjoy the company of most in both groups.

 

Hello Phil; First consider the source of the comment you refered to, that should tell you ALL you need to know, secondly...VERY FEW people have the talent, skills to build a car, so I believe a certain amount of envy is demonstrated for those that mock/belittle a replica. There are MANY collectors that have replicas of their original car/s, for exactly the example you sited. They enjoy their replica/s without the worry of damaging a VERY EXPENSIVE original.

I'm thinking of building a 69 Charger Daytona "Winged Wonder" replica in Richard Petty blue, because I can't see spending $500,000.00 for an original....Mark

 

Don't car guys just plain like cars. A couple of weeks ago I met a very hot lady driving a perfect corvair convertable. She flagged me down to see my Ferrari. I was totally taken by her Corvair and her legs. I also know a lady that ownes a cobra replica....she doesn't have that great of legs but that car is really nice. I like robots too.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that this is true; not in all cases of course, but in most. Unless you have built a kitcar you really have no idea of what it involves. The magazines and websites make it seem easy.....insert tab A into slot B.....repeat a few more times and then go for a drive. I've been working on my current replica for 4 years now and I really want to finish it soon so I can start on my next project......making fake Rolex watches. I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I would never wear a fake one.

The satisfaction in designing anything from a new shift knob to engine mounts for an application that doesn't exist, spending weeks measuring and researching what to do about driveshafts for a custom application, and then making all the parts yourself, well, you are doing something nobody else has done exactly the same. Incredibly rewarding. You think everything in a kitcar fits together perfectly? You do until you build one.

You build something with your own hands that is so complex and at the same time quite capable of seriously hurting you (or worse) if you get things wrong. The people that criticise this just don't understand the immensity of the project and what you have accomplished. Each to his own I suppose. There are those that understand and those that never will. One camp will never convince the other. Which is maybe a good thing, since we don't want the replica market being watered down by too many people building them!

Have fun in whatever you choose as a hobby and cut others some slack. Or not. Doesn't bother me. I've owned some amazing cars and I've built some; best of both worlds as far as I see it.

Rick

 

Frankly, if I had enough dough, I'd buy one of those 250GTO replicas that are almost perfect copies. Wouldn't tell people it was original, but I would drive it. Too bad they are around 500k or so.

Art

 

Just wanted to make sure you didnt think I was the original poster.

I'm FarmerDave.

The original poster is just Farmer.

I didnt see any other guys named Dave in this thread so just checking. Personally, I'm holding out for the real thing and meanwhile enjoying my stable of Crapcans

No offense to the original poster "Farmer" but I thought you knew me better than that Rob

 

Replica = Fake
Recreation= Real car currently produced in realtime.

A reacreation recreates an original. We have pursang buggatis as an example and Aston DB4 zagato;s which sell forhusge money. One day classiche may even build or sanction a recreation.

Of corse between replica and recreation there are grey areas. Is a Kirkham cobra a recreation yes, but where does an era cobra fall. Is a superformance GT40 a recreation?

How about a allegreti gto.

Thing is thes ecars will be built and the super accurate ones are accepted. Last I heard ferrari club accpts ferrari powered cars, regardless of body.

 

The deal with Cobras is that Mr. Shelby essentially condoned the creation of replicas by certifying a company to continue making them and calling them Cobras (now Superformance). They are no more "original" (whatever that means in the Cobra world, since they were all "kits" in a way) than the ones from any other company, they were simply given a continuation VIN.

So the creator of the original certified the "diminished excitement".

Ironically, the only person I know of (have not met him) with a real Cobra is also a Factory Five kit owner, and drives both.

 

A gentleman I worked with owned one of these in orange a few years ago. I shamed him into driving it to work twice. He then sold it so he could have something to drive and not worry about, he bought a Lotus Esprit (and took the rest of the money to use for his son's college fund). His car was a 440 six pack manual. He bought it for a song in 1970 because NO ONE WOULD BUY IT FROM THE DEALER! I've seen a 426 Hemi version in blue, but that was 30 years ago, a local guy used to run it up and down a country road near my friends house. What a sight, and what great noises!

Best of luck building your replica, I haven't looked, but I'll bet the repro parts are out there...