Thanks for the info Trent, this should be very interesting. I contacted Thermotec concerning their Louver type shield and they said it will reduce about 20% of the heat around the muffler and cats. Guess I'll go ahead and order it, last time I saw the cats they were glowing RED!
I have a laser thermometer I purchased from Lowe's and have been sampling different locations all along my exhaust line almost every time I drive it. I have the full Agency Power aftermarket system. The headers are typically in the high 500s after shutdown. Some of the sharper bends are in the low 600s and if the car has been in slow traffic for a while (before I get home) can even get to right about 700. They are the hottest point by far in the entire exhaust system. The sport cats are typically in the 400-500 range, whether polled at the inlet, at the outlet, or along the 'can'. While maybe ('maybe') the cat elements themselves get hotter, I seriously doubt they get 800 degrees hotter. The silencer is typically in the 200-300 range. The AP headers are uninsulated and de-restricted (no pre cat), as you know. My '01 E320 MB has 'normal' headers which have heat shields which are 'sandwiched' over the header pipes (and probably have a 1/4 inch of air gap with or without some fiberglass-like insulation in between). Polling the heat shield of that header (since there is no way to directly poll the header itself) usually gives readings in the 400-500 range (or about 150-250 degrees cooler than my 360's AP headers). While there is some advantage to the heat shields, I'm not sure how significant it is. I've thought long and hard about insulating my headers but I really think its a bad idea as the MTBF of the headers will undoubtedly rise. The insulation may lower the MTBF of other engine components in the engine bay, but it also may not, and in most cases those parts are cheaper and easier accessed anyway. FWIW, i've also polled the aluminum heatshield on the side of the frame which is nearest the header (its like 2 or so inches away). Even when the headers are blazing at 600+ degrees, those panels rarely get above 250, which really goes to show how much of an 'insulator' air itself is. The fuel rails, intake manifold, and air filter housing are all also usually in the 140-180 range, and consistently so.
Great data, thanks for taking the time to check your vehicle. -The headers have a lifetime warranty the other engine component parts do not. Risk aversion still has me using blankets, but your decision based on your data seems fine as well. *Anyone that will be at Coffee & Cars at Ferrari of Palm Beach on Sat Sept 1st, if you could check up on my F430 that would be very cool.
that's an excellent point and something i had not considered since my AP headers are the same way. perhaps i should invest in a sewing machine too you may want to check and make sure you aren't voiding the warranty with the blankets though. i know capristo demands them, but none of the other aftermarket companies (that i know of) include them or even seem to make them available, which makes me wonder if they might break balls about a claim knowing blankets were used. no pun intended
Women just love a man with a sewing machine. I got quite the "reaction" when a young lady visitor spotted the machine and the blankets. Its kind of the same as the girl you like because she is into tools or whatever. Anyway, by "reaction" I mean.... I talked with Jeff at Fabspeed for 30min about this pre purchase. He is a good listener and let me vent about the MKx failures for a while, nice guy. He did state his superior gets nervous when people over insulate the headers. I do understand how wrapping pipes can cause uneven expansion stress, I do not believe the blanket causes that. In the end if my Fabspeed headers fail, and Fabspeed does not want to warranty them because of this thread (possible), I can have them re-welded locally for less $ than dinner out. My local welder is fabulous and I like to help fund his hobbies (car racing). So all good. He has re-welded my Porsche exhaust, nearly every part, at least once. PUN = Nice
was just about to ask that question haha. why not ceramic with blankets... tuck that heat in for a good night sleep!!
Update with Tested Blankets -> Failure The blankets have been tested over 20 miles of spirited driving and about 2 hours of driveway idle. Observations: (at IDLE) =============== 1. The new headers + blankets smoked like crazy! (image). They smoked at idle for at least an hour. Then on first spirited drive for 2 miles (approx.). I recommend after install, drive at night for 10 miles with an extinguisher (just in case). I recommend night because flames can be spotted quickly and smoke is less easily seen (it was embarrassing). 2. The highest header temp I could get from my IR thermometer after 1 hr of idle was 270 deg F on the blanket itself. 3. I put racelogic temp strips on the frame just above the header - CAT junction and it never creeped into the measurable range. 4. I put a racelogic temp strip on the blanket and the racelogic strip was burned beyond recognition. (FUBAR) My Personal Failure: (post DRIVE) =============== 1. The blanket burnt up. I dont know how else to describe the aftermath. The kevlar was completely gone, the kevlar thread was completely gone, the silver blanket material was reduced to a thin mesh of nothing. 2. The Thermo-Tec 16850 26" X 40" Kevlar Heat Barrier is rated to "The cover can withstand up to 3000 degrees Fahrenheit of radiant heat and can withstand direct contact up to 1100 degrees Fahrenheit." and designed for "...for applications on manifolds or exhaust systems"; was completely destroyed by heat (images) 3. Interesting enough, the only material to survive intact was the "Thermo-Tec 14002 1 1/2" X 15' Thermo-Shield Roll" which is NOT rated for exhaust manifold temperatures and was just used for strapping material. Summary: ======== At idle manifold temps the blanket did well and shielded the engine compartment from heat properly. At driving full throttle header temps the blanket disintegrated and failed. I am a little upset because I purchased material rated and designed for exhaust manifolds, that clearly can not take the heat of an exhaust manifold. The time and effort in the creation of the blanket has been wasted. The good news is that removal of the failed blanket took 3 minutes, I just grabbed it and pulled and it just fell apart in my hand, a far cry from the original (un cooked) blanket that was so durable it might be able to stop a small caliber hand gun. What is my game plan? =============== Options: 1. Try again with better (different) blanket material 2. Buy the capristo blankets, rumor has it they are $1100 USD 3. Just dont use a blanket. I dont track the car or really drive it hard for more than a short duration. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I will vote for...opt 2 =P at least you can see the difference on material and may be know what cause the failure. btw the capristo will smoke a lot at the beginning too. I am not sure is the header or the blanket, i had them installed at the same time. smoke and smell will be gone after couple drives.
Damn shame. I was looking forward to seeing your bulletproof headers! Are you still going to take IR temp readings to compare to an MK2?
I was wondering that as well. $400 vs. $150 plus hassle - if the coating works it seems like that would be the way to go. Thanks for the write-ups Trent - I'll be attempting the headers on my car soon.
Trent, I will post pictures later of my Capristo header blankets, and my Capristo cat blankets. The header blankets have been to multiple track days since installed a year ago, at least 8 days on decent Florida weather (not hot, as I avoid running the car at the track between May and October), and less than 2,000 miles on them. The cat blankets were installed just a few days ago by Capristo US (Andrea Taurino) in Riviera Beach, FL, along with the magnificent twin sound Scuderia valved muffler.
Wow, I looked at the Thermo-tec website when you posted what you were using, and it sure looked like that material should work. Is it possible that they sent the wrong stuff (any markings on it?) What do they say about what happened ? Darn.
Trent, sorry to hear that your blankets didn't work out. The Capristo blankets are really thick, like several kitchen pot holders thick. Also, they fit like a glove and are snug on the Capristo headers. Because the Fabspeeds may have different bends, you may want to make sure you can return them if they don't fit. The quality of the Capristo blankets are first class and Andrea at Taurino Racing may be able to answer any questions you may have. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I work in the industrial insulation industry and one of the things we manufacture and install are high temperature blankets like the Capristo unit pictured above albeit ours our custom built for piping valves and flanges etc. After looking at your first cover I am not surprised that your cover burnt off and I would be surprised if it lowered the temp much. As far as wrapping the headers go, it is a good thing for a few reasons - reduces engine bay heat soak and intake charge temperatures (colder denser air = more HP). I think the vendor would be nervous because if you keep the heat in the pipe you will promote much more heat growth during the heating and cooling cycles. By that I mean your exhaust will grow and shrink more with the elevated temperatures - Think of the system as a big spring that gets longer when hot and obviously shorter when cool and increased growth will only exacerbate the problems created by the poor Ferrari exhaust hanger design. You will certainly need ceramic fiber blanket insulation sewn within a ceramic or carbon fiber/ Kevlar mixed cloth. I will be building a set for myself soon for both the headers and cats and would be happy to help you with your set. Just doing some research on cloth options with my supplier now.
hi.. bumping up this old thread.. im from the 355 section.. but came across this thread while googling header blanket options for the 355.. I will either be getting set of 355 Fabspeed headers or having my oem set rebuild at a shop locally.. for simplicity we would not put back the shields if rebuilding.. so in either case, I was looking into the header blankets from Thermotec.. I know of a couple guys using them on their 355's.. and it seems to be fine.. but as we see is this thread.. the blankets burnt to a crisp after one drive.. Thermotec has many different types of heat products.. what i suspect in this case.. is that the wrong heat wrap was used.. or delivered. as Trent described.. he bought the raw material uncut.. the Thermotec blankets that the 355 guys used, are already cut and come as 2 blankets meant for v8 applications.. based on the pics in this thread the material had a foamy looking inside.. which i suspect is Thermotec's other product line for heat/sound barrier.. not for direct contact on manifolds.. even though this is what he thought he was getting..
confirmed it was the wrong material.. Thermo-Tec : Kevlar Heat Barrier VERSUS Thermo-Tec : Header Manifold Blanket
Can also confirm.... Kevlar Muffler Cover = burnt to a crisp when covering my rear muffler (360) Header Manifold Blanket = seems to work much better.
Why not just use a product like DEI's titanium exhaust wrap? https://www.designengineering.com/category/catalog/dei-cycle/motorcycle-exhaust-pipe-wrap-kits/titanium-exhaust-wrap-lr-technology
I just want to thank Trent and all the other members that contributed to this discussion. I enjoyed reading and learned a lot. Many thanks again. Dan
Or regular header tape. I made a blanket for my Miata and revised and improved it using aluminum fireproof tape. Weave a mesh out of header tape. Staple it together. Cut heavy duty aluminum foil in several layers as a shell. Cover the tape mesh with the aluminum shell. Tape edges together, punch holes for mounting bolts. Reinforce holes with tape. The trick hear was it was just a blanket and not a "sweater" like the blankets here. So there is fresh air flow from front to back and from underneath. It works well. My car takes forever to warm up and hydraulic fluids have lasted longer. Intake temps are good too. Today I finally got wing nuts to use on the upward facing mounting bolts (double nutted to the brackets) so I can remove and replace the blanket easily now. I will polish the header and take pics maybe next week. It's worked well for years.
And inside the multisheet heavy duty aluminum foil cover is a matt made of header tape. Just weave it together to size and staple the ends to fix Fire proof aluminum foil tape for the edges. 3 sheets of fool front and back Miata 4-2-1 header arranged like this: \\\/ I think the 360/430 header blankets could work with just a cover and skirt, bottoms open. Attaching will be the challenge. Maybe even leave the fronts open. Oh, the straps can still work to attach it. Polishing header is taking all day! It's 5 years old at least. Wire wheel is doing the trick. More tonight Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
