348 Timing Belt Failure?????

As we've discussed in the past...SOSDD.

 

Really? NO BELT snapped? Bold statement from someone who really appears to base his posts in this thread on assumption and lack of proven technical knowledge on Ferrari engines.

 

I have a spare and to save time I powdercoated it and new suspension bushings and rebuilt shocks


I have 3 f355's and many spare parts
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So we're on this thread has anyone posted there belt has snapped. Because even though you are trying very hard to read into what's clearly NOT there. Re read my post again, I was referring to this thread. That's why I said " back to the subject" ( of the thread).
How do you know what my experience of Ferrari engines is? You know nothing about me, your making assumptions that are wrong.

 

Looks nice.

 

Those 2 post hydrolic lifts awlays scared the poop out of me when there is an issure, great looking shop too clean for me LOL

 

No problem with a two-post lift, especially lifting something light like a Ferrari. You need to be careful, just like with everything else.

 

Yes, not to forget that when a car leaves our shops, customer expects no issues and should there be any customer expects (correctly) that they will be resolved. Heck my pre-start and strip drive and scan takes an hour, the post work checks, scan, drive and recheck is probably 2 more.

Naturally I'll let the old oil and coolant just swill around somewhere, throw the dirty tools in a pile on the bench, leave any fingermarks on the paint, forget about the wash and balance the wheels, wash and vacuum the car, bag the old parts for the customer, print off the invoice with the photographic record along with the scan readout and cylinder leakage numbers to save time and get closer to er maybe 30 hours!

I'm with Tim, 5-6 days minimum for me. Want it cheaper, quicker? Not me pal.

 

You're not wrong, bit of a step up from where I took my car before. Between the workshop, showroom and storage areas I'd guess there were maybe 50 Ferraris there last time I dropped by. 3 F40s, an Enzo, 599 Alonso edition (forget the real name!), couple of 458 Spiders ..... I was like a kid in a sweet shop!

Still, it's not all about having a workshop floor you can eat your lunch off of and I'm sure many of the smaller outfits do great work. That said, I'd doubt if their receptionist is quite as pretty. Really stunning looking girl.

 

Remember, you are paying for that "eye candy".

 

Happy to

 

Hang on, you are talking about the girl, right? Could live without the cars....

 

I'm talking about "overhead". The receptionist is part of it.

My clients understand (and appreciate) why I'm the only one here in my small shop, when I hand them the bill.

 

Because you posted earlier that you were involved in the automotive industry and said you were an owner for "x" years. Yes I made an assumption, based on this statement. Surely if you were qualified and experienced in fixing these cars you may have mentioned it at this point?
While we are are on the subject of assumptions, you are now stating that because nobody else on this particular thread has posted relating to their own failure, then it is not something that has happened? Sorry, not the case. Fences breaking, water pump failures, I Xcould go on....
All of which would have been prevented. Still, your car, your decision. I look forward to your thread in a few years time when you decide it's the right time to change belts,complete with full pictures and documentary so that we can analyse quite how good your wrenching skills are....

 

I thought that was Eddie's new shop...........

 

Good, I am glad we can now put this to bed and just get on with the thread
So no one on here so far has had a belt snap, as per the original question.

 

Tim, I fully expect your shop is very efficient and the work is to a great standard. I know a pretty receptionist is an unnecessary expence (she really is very pretty, mind you) but the main dealer I go to do pretty well at keeping costs down, while only using genuine Ferrari parts and all the mechanics are trained at Maranello on each new model. It's a fairly good setup and suites me pretty well for now.

Over here in the UK the main dealers have had to change their tack a bit to try to poach some trade back off the indies. I'll put it in perspective. I have 3 cars, 2 are Skoda diesels, the last is a 348. Last round of services the Ferrari cost me the least, I kid you not. Yes it's barking mad but that's what's happened over here. I don't think it will happen over your way because I doubt you'd be able to operate at that level. I could be wrong of course.

 

With a large countdown clock in the picture! At 20 hours, jump in and drive off into the sunset, I'll stock up on the popcorn.

 

Hi Brian. Just idle curiosity, and they're often a bit optimistic, but what does the book say an engine out cam belt service on a 348 should take?

 

Actually a 348 can be a very reliable car. My own requires basically nothing outside of regular servicing. I'm in a pretty small market here with no dealer nearby and only a few places that work on exotics. Half of those are well-known crooks. Their clients eventually find me. I keep my overhead low by choice and so far haven't had to offer "coupons".

 

Good on you. Sounds like a good setup.

 

Thats the way it should be done, you will never go hungry, honest value for the dollar always wins the marathon

 

...look folks it's not about ripping people off it's standard business metrics ... Shops across many marquees will run an analysis that basically is: how many cars come in per month ... What's my direct labors costs ...what are my fixed and variable indirect costs ... Therefore what do I need to generate per customer per visit in revenue to realize an earnings goal of X ... The semantics may be wrong ... But this is what most businesses do on a macro level ... It just so happens that lower number of owners/ fcars coupled with very high pride of ownership and deep pockets causes a very high revenue per visit number and lots of unnecessary stuff to be done ... Nobody who does this for a living is going to admit to this methodology but the evidence is pretty compelling ... The solution isn't complex ... Fix what's broken or showing wear and charge for the time you work in hourly increments ... If you want to enhance rates use 50 minute hours and round up on the last hour ... There's lots of precedence for that in the professional services sector ... But stop booking phantom hours and fixing stuff the ain't broken .... You fcar guys more than anybody else in the hobby are getting colluded against and clipped ... Ur some of the smartest guys in the world ... Stop reading ur own book ... And stand up for yourselves!

 

Starting to make sense, and that's why I do it myself. I'm not willing to pay Ferrari shop labor to have my tires balanced, especially if there's nothing to indicate they are out of balance. Ditto 2 hours for a compression and leakdown test. I perfectly understand why a shop does that (or needs to), but for my purposes doing things that are not necessary to the service or something that I would be doing anyway (like wash/wax/vacuum) is not what I consider part of the service or would be willing to pay $80-$150 an hour for. You outlined 10 hours worth of stuff that would either be unnecessary due to my working knowledge of my car or would be done anyway by me for fun on the weekend.

That being said, I realize there's a big difference between me, knowing exactly how my car runs and drives, taking it apart and putting it back together vs. a shop that needs to get a good baseline, compression and leakdown, and then perform the service and take it back to the customer so they are covered if the customer complains. I can't complain to myself and ask for a refund if I have a misfire I didn't address that turns out to be low compression due to valve guides, where a shop doesn't have that luxury and probably feels it necessary to cover themselves by doing a compression/leakdown to both make sure there isn't an underlying issue and/or they can help the customer fix stuff like that while the engine is already out. I should say there's no way a timing belt change should take 40 hours if that's all that's being done, but if we are talking major service to include all of the delighters outlined above along with some other unforseen repairs, yeah it adds up. That's not just a major service though, that's a major service, wash and wax, vacuum, tire balance and PPI all in one shot, and all done by a Ferrari shop charging accordingly (and well worth it for those that can't do it themselves). I feel maybe we are not talking apples to apples here.

If I consider a major service to be: remove engine, change timing belts and tensioners, rebuild water pump, re-seal and paint cam covers and that's all that's done, how many hours does that take?

 

How long is this piece of string I am holding?

Same type of question, no one answer. You've told the world how you can get it done, as mentioned earlier, we await your ACTUAL results.

And if my car were to be returned with a dirty handprint, an out of balance wheel I would be upset, whether I had just paid 100 or 5000 for services.

Ever wonder why there are so many scumbag attorneys selling themselves for cheap? How about that dive of a restaurant? Sure you can always get that cut rate, bare to the bone service in any industry/profession, and good for you if that's what you want. But this isn't about an exposee of the thieving good for nothing cheating shop owners out there that mostly have a healthy waiting list of very satisfied customers is it? It's about regurgiting internet fiddle faddle, everyone's an expert. Standards are what yoyu apply to your life, don't expect the whole world to lower theirs.