No V6 Turbos in 2014? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

No V6 Turbos in 2014?

Discussion in 'F1' started by Tifosi15, Sep 29, 2012.

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  1. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    He would, wouldn't he? - They all lie, generally on the low side. ;)

    Debatable (of course!) - Give 'em a few races and they'll be at the same lap times as now, which are about the same as the V10 days etc.

    This has been posted before, but it's a very interesting paper (if you're an engine geek) by Dr Theissen detailing their 10 years in F1....... If they'd been allowed to do what they wanted they might still be with us.......

    http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres/up/10237196789579146/moteurs_BMW_F1.pdf

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  2. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    8,516
    Bournemouth, UK
    Well, the 2004 Monza Pole Position time was 1:20, whereas this year's it was 1:24. So there is some difference still. ;) Of course Monza is a power circuit but the 2004 cars had so much downforce as well. Power is decreasing over the past decade and the new engines will be weaker still. O tempora o mores.
     
  3. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
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    Ian Anderson
    Indeed. But IIRC they've tightened the first chicane since then (?)

    And, in my "defense" I did say *about* the same. ;)

    Isn't Suzuka (& Brazil?) the only circuit that retains the same configuration as it was back in the V10 days? Kimi holds the record at 1.31.5 - It'll be interesting to see where they are this year.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  4. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    DJ
    #29 TifosiUSA, Oct 1, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
    Pretty pathetic that F1 cars have regressed in terms of lap time over the past 10 years. Was exciting back in the early 2000s to see new lap records.
     
  5. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    8,516
    Bournemouth, UK
    Not really. The latest change at Monza happened in 2000. Hence the lap times are absolutely comparable. Not to mention that they are running slicks now, but I am not sure if they actually are that much quicker than the grooved tyres they had back then. :)
     
  6. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
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    Ian Anderson
    I hear you, but;

    I guarantee neither you nor anyone else (outside the jockeys in a back to back) can discern a 5% increase in lap time - They remain staggeringly quick IMO.

    "Fastest lap" and the 3 qualy sessions are about as good as we're gonna see - That they're a tiny bit slower with less cc's & motors & 'boxes that must last forever now I find astounding.

    That they're "stagnant" is down to the safety commission IMO - Let 'em at it and we'd be even further away, the runoff areas would be bigger and so on.

    Be grateful for full grids *all* safely within 107..... And the front half generally within a second. It's all good. ;)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  7. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    DJ
    While I don't disagree, pushing the boundaries and going faster is a novel idea for the world's "premier form of motorsport," no?

    Just tired of the excessive safety BS and rule changes to slow the cars down. F1 always progressed in terms of laptimes, there hasn't been a 10 year period of stagnation like this until now. It sucks.

    For instance, what was wrong with double diffusers? I could see banning off-throttle blowing but double diffusers? Just lame.
     
  8. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
    13,201
    The Netherlands
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    Peter den Biggelaar
    F1 is not about records and we've reached the safety ceiling within the circuit's parameters. Unlimited development would have resulted in cars becoming too fast, maybe even for the drivers (G-forces). Think ground effect era.
     
  9. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2007
    9,768
    Stuttgart, Germany
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    Florian
    Awesome!! The Vienna Engine Symposium always has fantastic contributions outside the world of production car engines, too bad it's more or less invitation only... my boss is always invited, I'm not :(
     
  10. Schmick325

    Schmick325 Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2004
    879
    Bris east
    Wow they don't sound like this anymore :(

    Hamilton was over 20km/ph slower down the main straight this year in his Qualifying Pole lap too!

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR-955Ds6bk[/ame]
     
  11. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
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    David
    While a concern that rationale has been used to foist some foolish restrictions on the sport.

    Balancing safety and innovation can be tricky but recent rulings have been stifling.
     
  12. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    DJ
    Who said anything about unlimited development? Just SOME development without everything under the sun getting banned.

    And sorry, but F1 has always been about pushing the envelope. Until the last decade when the FIA dumbed everything down.
     
  13. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    David
    AMEN brother.
     
  14. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,478
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    MC Cool Breeze
    So i just read that Bernie, and LDM wants to scrap the 2014 engines, due to the terrible sound it makes. And Bernie's blaming Mosley for this.

    Well, i really really miss the days of the V10s. such music!
     
  15. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    Ian Anderson
    OK, thanks. I believe Brazil (and Suzuka?) are the only others where direct comparison remains possible. (?)

    Plus we were at the height of a tire war - They *always* go quicker when there's one of those going on......

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  16. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    Ian Anderson
    Pushing the boundaries, yes indeed. "Going faster" is debatable IMO. They remain the fastest things round a road course and are just about as quick as they've ever been.

    They are very much pushing the boundaries; They're doing it with less cc's and engines & 'boxes that last forever compared to a decade back. No second or third dedicated test teams pounding out tens of thousands of KM's.

    Fair enough. I beg to differ on it sucking however - They're closer together now than they've ever been. There's immense competition between at least half (probably more) of the grid - Any one if 'em has at least a good shot at a podium every week. Even the "losers" are well within 107. It wasn't that long ago they had to scrap that little rule to fill the grid.

    I certainly agree on that one! It makes no sense to me either. I can only guess Charlie is trying to reduce the huge influence of aero these days. Dunno why though - It's about the only thing that separates 'em.

    I could certainly make an argument that they should be de-shackled; **** it, let 'em go with active aero, active suspension and fully automatic everything. Costs will sky rocket, the jockeys will be in g-suits and they'll be a few seconds a lap quicker. But, the question then becomes, so what? It would be unsustainable IMO.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  17. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    DJ
    "Just about" doesn't work when describing F1, IMO. 3-4 seconds is an eternity and thats how far we've gone BACKWARDS in the last 8 years.

    Next it will be fuel consumption, who can save the most fuel. If I wanted to watch economy runs I'd watch sportscar racing. Drivers used to be able to go balls-out without worrying about engines, tires or gearboxs lasting. It was better,

    As for how close everyone is together, that's a product of stifling innovation and in my opinion the sport is worse off for it. Everyone is real close together in NASCAR or Indycar too.
     
  18. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    Ian Anderson
    But again, so what? As I said before, there's no way that anyone notices those few seconds until they bury their heads in the record books. I believe the spending they were doing back then would have eventually killed it completely. Then we'd have a sad! ;)

    I certainly hear you, and definitely agree on economy runs being a disaster. It seems however that they've got that one right at least; Limit maximum fuel flow, not capacity is the way to force 'em to get "better"... "More for less" is still pushing the boundaries, no?

    Agreed again! However, there's what, 3-4 car makers in Nascar and a sole supplier (?) in Indy - They damn well should be close together - Talk about stifling innovation! I haven't checked, but I'd bet the Indy guys grid was *much* more spread out in Montreal than the F1 guys - and they're all identical cars......

    One of F1's biggest appeals to me is that you've gotta be a *manufacturer* - That they lock themselves away all winter and come up with cars that go from hero to zero in a second or so is awesome IMO.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     

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