Hey folks, Just thought I'd make you aware of some disappointing behavior I have observed on the used market. Here's a link to a Red/Tan 360 Spider (89k miles!!! *gulp*) for sale on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-Ferrari-360-Spider-Convertible-2-Door-3-6L-/110960208237?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item19d5be696d Note the asking price of $49,900 OBO. Also note in the write-up the accident history explained by the seller. You can view the history of offers - there were a few "songs" on that list. Now check this AutoTrader listing, posted SHORTLY (meaning within a day or so) after the eBay auction was "no longer available" http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=45458&endYear=2013&keywords=Spider&modelCode1=360&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&startYear=1981&makeCode1=FER&exteriorColorSimple1=RED&keywordsfyc=Spider&searchRadius=0&listingId=331878320&Log=0 See any similarities? Hmmm, let us start with the VIN, which is identical. Next, move to the write-up, which was copied from the original seller's eBay add, almost verbatim. What's different? Well, the company name. Oh, and the ACCIDENT HISTORY. Minor detail. So, in summary, this same car was "bought" from the original seller who listed on eBay (when the car was located in Florida) for somewhere south of $49,900, I think we can be sure. Now, with little/no reconditioning (probably, given the time between posts), it's being retailed for "$61,500" when it was worth less than $49,9k to start with! Hopefully, we can mostly agree there. Then again, that's probably cannon fodder for some folks here. It's just frustrating to see this kind of stuff because I've been watching the market so closely for like 6 months, then something wacky like this happens and it defies all of my logic. I know, I know, a dealer trying to make a fast buck at the expense of the previous owner....... Anyway, I personally wouldn't touch this lady with someone else's 10-foot pole, if you catch my drift. "Atlanta Fine Cars." Grrr.. *FRUSTRATED*
It's a free market, and it works well, especially in an environment of free-flowing information. You've done your part. Thanks.
...thoroughly confused by your post, why are you upset if you wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole? Do you expect the dealer to sell it for less? the same amount? More?
I'm confused....why do you care?....and if someone bought it they're free to try and sell it for whatever they want....
I understand because I am also in the market looking. The dealer intentionally left out the accident history leaving it up to the buyer to figure it out, possibly after spending $400 for a PPI. I wonder what they would say if you were on the lot and the first question you asked them was "does this car have any accident history?"
I think the OP is referring to the fact that the original ad clearly mentions the accident damage, the new ad/seller does not, and no way the new seller does not know this.......
The price doesn't bother me too much, because the way I see it: It was listed low on e-bay to hopefully start a bidding war and raise the price, or, as it's listed now, a higher price with the ability to negotiate down to make a sale. Take your choice? A car is only worth what someone will pay for it. Whether it's negotiated up, or down, it will end at the same price eventually. I agree about the accident info though. It's extremely screwed up that it wasn't disclosed up front. But unfortunately, from what I've seen, it seems like you have to ask a direct question like: Was it in any accidents? Were there any repaints of any kind? Even then, they can lie. I bought my car from a dealer (authorized F car dealer), and I was assured that there were no repaints of any kind....come to find out after I got it delivered that there was an obvious repaint! Even after I insisted that it was a deal breaker for me if there was any repaint, I was still lied to! I hate to be this way, but when you look for a car, don't trust ANYONE, and you won't end up disapointed.
VIN ZFFYT53A720128090 for posterity (i.e. search engine). if the next buyer does his homework, this will show up. Apparently it's also on Carfax.
I never thought of the scam angle..... Hmmmm... I don't understand why this thread is so confusing. I found something notable, posted it, and gave my opinion & feelings. End of story. Anyway, maybe you guys see 89,000 mile Ferrari cars every day. I know I sure don't.
If I read this correctly the OP is saying the FL guy was honest and the GA guy is hiding something. I don't know why the OP cares but the post was slightly entertaining.
i missed out on a forum deal. 1999 Silver 360 with 26k miles, carbon OEM seat sold for $57 private party... 2 weeks late it was on eBay for $65k. oh well.
Were am I when these deals come up ? In all seriousness that is a screaming deal if car was clean and good history, no major service needed. I am looking for a Red 360, higher miles, lower price- send em my way.
Any mention of "Florida" and the red flags and alarms should start going off and any interest in the vehicle should be suspect from there on.(or better yet immediately move on )
Not all FL owners are scammers. I live in SW Florida 50% of the year. I've owned my gorgeous 2000 360 Red/Blk coupe for 3 years now, purchased from fellow Fchatter. Was AZ car most of its life. If and when I sell it, it will be listed here first b/c I feel it's the best place to interact with honest fellow enthusiasts. It will be represented honestly, because I have never, and will never, cheat a purchaser of the many cars I've loved and sold over the years. Granted, there are many scammers in FL, and most of them in the SE (Miami) FL area. But a blanket statement like that is just BS. There are also tons of con artists in the Phoenix area and in Las Vegas. Does that mean one should dismiss every possible car purchase from those areas too? Give me a break! Oh yeah, and I forgot, EVERYBODY in the O.C. is honest!!!
The guy was local to me, it was a forum member asking for pricing advice. It was one of those deals posted on a wed and sold before the weekend. Wasn't that long ago, from what I heard it needed tires, rear latch needed to be serviced and annual.
East coast Vs West coast is so biggie and 2Pac ish. The worst car dealer and transaction I have had in my life was in CA, but I am afraid that does not give me the right to label the entire state as a red-flag. OP: why do you care about this 360 transaction? The price delta between purchase and sale is called profit, its really an important part of the economy. The undisclosed details are the buyers responsibility, well at least the smart buyers. Carfax and its clones are your friends. If you want to point out a particularly good deal, go ahead, some will thank you, but if you want to post on all Ferraris for sale with undisclosed damage than you are likely going to wear the markings off of your keyboard.
Buy low. Sell high. Cars bounce around all the time. I would be willing to bet if you asked the dealer if the car has been in a accident, he would probably tell you what the eBay seller said.
As a car dealer, i see nothing wrong with this deal! The Ebay auction had an offer of $44k which was declined, so if he sold it to this Dealer, it wasnt that far south of $49k. Plus the Atlanta dealer has some liability and expense. Just because he is asking $61k, doesnt mean he will get it or take in a trade in that the customer wants more than its worth. With that said, the ebay guy and Dealer could be friends or one in the same. Sometimes people list cars on ebay in hopes to find a retail customer, or see what the car might be worth. Wait a few months and see if the car sells, my bet is that it might be there on the site till next spring...it aint easy to finance a 90,000 mile Ferrari!
Silly rant. What's your logic? A car is worth what someone is willing to pay. The dealer saw potential so he scooped it up. Buying and selling, Yes, It happens daily, really shouldn't upset you.
Wow, thanks to all the guys who have explained how buying and selling works. It was always such a mystery to me! I can't figure out how I've made it this far without such basic advice. Best forum ever! For those with some understanding and insight, thanks. For those without such, well you know what to do. At least it sparked a somewhat worthwhile discussion. My point was to highlight the behavior and share my opinion. That's it. End of story. FWIW the selling dealer has 8 BBB complaints relatively recently and has a fraud case in court with a buyer. Joy, now I get to read all the smart posts about why BBB complaints and fraud cases are a GOOD thing. I'll be holding my breath fellas! I'm not buying the car, thought it was interesting given the history, writeup, and mileage. For those who didn't find those things of interest, well, I don't care. Seriously, I wonder why I bother posting anything sometimes. Oh, wait, if I hadn't, then the buy/sell mystery would still be unknown to me. How lucky I am...............
People here can be so full of it at times... The OP goes out of his way to share info trying to help his fellow fchatters and he gets idiotic replies. The information posted is very useful, end of story. As an fchatter, all I want to say is thank you.
Now this is good info. I know what dealer I'm staying away from for my next purchase, some dealers without complaints are bad enough, I can't even imagine how bad these guys are!
Regardless of what none says about the op... This has helped ensure I find a more trustworthy dealer when needed
