Saturday was a north wind and that strong front coming through. Thursday and Friday I was fishing in bright skys and 85 degrees.
confirmed it was turbine which jives with the leave 52F as no JET-A and short hop to get fuel at Athens.
Would that be something that would be filed in the original flight plan? I've not read anything about a planned fuel stop, but you've seen way more on this than I. Interesting fact about the turbine, certainly begins to paint a clearer picture. Are they typically less efficient than the piston engines? Would a missed approach really lead to a catastrophic nose dive if they suddenly ran out of gas on the second?
their flight plan was to Athens, which is a short trip from 52F. only reason would be for fuel. they switched to Terrell either because of fuel, low ceilings at Athens, or both. turbines burn more gas. catastrophic nose dive happens when engine quits and pilot doesn't keep plane from stalling. that's why so many crash spins after take off, the attitude from power on climb to engine out safe glide is severe, especially when you are climbing just above stall speed anyway if the engine goes you need to nose over very quick to maintain flight. on top of that pilots try to nurse more glide distance often making mistake of going below stall speed.
See, I knew you knew more about this than me, thanks for explaining in such detail. It is now becoming clearer to me that your initial thoughts are likely correct. All that's missing from the official report is the missed approach and high fuel burn on climb, turn and set-up for second as a result to bring them coming in too slow and out of gas, just short of the runway at Terrell.
Thanks Rob for posting the letter from another one of Len's friends. Fuel starvation sounds like the most likely problem but I am still shocked Len or Greg could not have managed an engine out emergency with a better outcome. Also, it appears the flight lasted 32 minutes or so. I just don't see Len taking off with so little fuel in reserve- he was not a risk taker. It has been therapuetic to have guys to visit with and try and make sense of this tragedy. Thank you
Bad things come in 3s. News showed what looked like a Pitts through the north fence and upside down. Thankfully, looks like no injury.
CBS had on TV tonight. Fuel was found in fuel pumps. ATC was in contact- they were trying to get fuel in Athens but ceilings too low so headed to Terrell. Reporter said "Some control cable were broken, probably due to overload" Sounds like icing or microburst.
Preliminary Report Released today: This report is just observations, no conclusions. On a quick read I would say... 1) plane still had fuel flow to end. 2) plane was configured for cruise (no flaps and landing gear up). 3) no CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain), this was a more severe impact and with last communication at 2900 I think something happened at altitude. 4) Surprised by the low hours of both pilots and lack of flying before their medical (medicals were over 6 months ago, so no indication of recent time).
I think this sums it up until NTSB submits their final report. I would think that there would be signs of corrective measures (flaps, ailerons, etc.) if they were in distress. What could bring a plane down IMMEDIATELY from 3,000'?? Explain how a microburst or icing could create a catastrophic nose-dive? Could the wings have been overloaded and separated from the fuselage?
Even at 3k feet, the temp should have been above freezing (low 40's F by my calcs), but they would have been in the clouds, so... The '85 A36 Bonanza was converted to RR turbine power in '86... almost from new, or maybe actually from new. Earlier posts sounded like the pilots were very experienced... they were not... low hours and hadn't flown for 6 months. IFR to boot. They could have been incapacitated... CO, or? Would not be an O2 issue at that altitude.
birds are not rated for flight into IFR conditions, they remain grounded until VFR conditions return... a bird strike could occur if they flew below the overcast, rather unlikely, being in positve control
The radar and comm records will likely provide a plausible explanation. Although the prelim report spoke briefly of the control cables, what could be interesting is the AP servos, especially the pitch servo.
I think Rob or others would with more IFR knowledge than I would know but is icing a possibilty with these conditions? "At 0953, the recorded weather at TRL was: wind 020 degrees at 10 knots; visibility 10 statute miles; overcast clouds at 600 feet; temperature 12 degrees C; dew point 9 degrees C; altimeter 30.16 inches of mercury." This was a Terrell AWOS with the reported temp at the surface- not at 3000 feet. At 3000 feet, the temp and dew point were probably the same ( we know what that means). WIth the velocity of air flowing over the wings, (if I recall correctly) the outiside temp does not have to be 0 degrees C. for icing to occur. Also, the total times recorded on the med apps is not accurate.
12C is nearly 54F, which with a lapse rate of 3 gives 45F at 3000ft. Even using 5 gives 39F, which would not likely result in any ice. At least not general icing, but one critical area could have been the pitot system either icing or just moisture. I'm sure they'll try and review switch positions from the wreckage, i.e. pitot heat.
I think most pilots have ruled out ice as not possible for the reasons jcurry explained. does the Bo have a carb and require carb heat less than 3 degree spread?
no ****, I'm the first one that said it was a turbine, I just don't know anything about turbines how they work and if same spread rate issues are a risk like carbs.
