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Tony, I have quite a few emails, PM's, and a couple of phone calls pertaining to this and for some unknown reason nobody will ask these questions: Can you elaborate on why cars were taken out of you shop and sent to Evans to correct? And also, do you require a very large amount of money up front for restoration work? Do you realise you have several unhappy customers? Thanks. Remember, I'm just the elected questioneer.
In response to some messages..... We all love the photos of Tony's work. We love the clean shop. Especially me. But I absolutely refuse to tip toe around a situation. I have made many really good friends on here and I/we all watch eachothers back. I have heard, through PM and email about a half dozen stories which I will not repeat on public forums. BUT, when I have emails and PM's asking MY advise on where to send their cars and that a few have asked about Tony's, damn it, I want to say "go there, you'll be satisfied". Tony can be hero on here and expalin. For example, a bad seed in the shop or a certain situation arose at that time. It's happened more time, in all the shops, throughout all the years. God knows Roy and Joe have been roughed up for things and car owners have been taken advantage of all over this earth. It is imperative that we all work together to have the best shops to take care of out needs.
Peter, I would be happy to respond. I have taken 2 engines out of customer cars here and crated them up and sent to Evans for full rebuild by my recommendation as they both had severe engine damage. I have a good relationship with George Evans and have worked with him for a long time. There have been cars that have changed hands that have been sent to Evans that once were at my shop but I have never been contacted by a customer saying they were unhappy with something we did. If that was the case and they contacted me I would have gone over the issue in question and re do the job to the customers satisfaction. We take a 60% deposit on all restoration work. I am not aware of having several unhappy customers because they have not expressed that to me. I don't know who appointed you Countach sounding board or why this would be made public without ever being discussed privately unless there are ulterior motives. I am starting year 9 in the classic and sports car service and restoration business. There have been very few issues over the years with unhappy customers, I stand behind everything we do to a fault where I will gladly loose money before I would ever knowingly let a customer leave unhappy. Again my policy is to take care of every car and customer the same, not take on a job that I am not comfortable with, and deliver the best product for what the customer has contracted for us to do. I have had many customers over the years (on all types of cars) that bring a car in, it needs $20,000 worth of work, they choose to do $10,000 and when they get the car back they are unhappy. I am not saying this about any one customer, but everyone hopes it will only cost X and when its two or three times X to really do everything a 30+ year old car needs, if its not all tended to there will still be issues with that car. My staff and I are committed to customer satisfaction, I am disappointed that this has come out here and in this light but all I can do is state our position. Tony Ierardi
I do think no matter who you are or what you do..not everyone can be happy.. HOWEVER, as a professional there are times you should maybe walk away from a job, you dont have to take every job. It is our job as a professional in this industry to advise a customer the TRUE cost of something...not just do ONLY what they want to "patch" it up..it can only lead to issues. I have multiple times not bought a car, not sold a car, nor brokered a car because it is just a RED flag waiting to happen..IMO, you either do it correct from the on-set or you do not do it at all...after all customers come to us DUE to our "Knowledge" that we say we have on these items...if they knew it they would do it themselfs..whcih some do and are very happy with. I dont see why issues, reagrdless who or what it is cant be made for open view and discussion. I think if you choose to be in this business..you are open to publi comments, replys, scrutiny..etc etc etc..after all that is the purpose of this board in a lot of cases..for people to gather all the info they can, speak to multiple people then make their own educated decision from info they gather. After all we (Professionals) SURELY want to post all POSTIVE things we do and achieve for exsposure to the buying public...so it is only fair play that negative should be as well. Lord knows I have taken my knocks on the chin. I have never worked with Tony and his staff...I choose that after a very poor experiance with Joe and Tony in Monterey some years back. I have no issue speaking of it, and many know. IMO, I had NO or little Knoledge of COuntach at the time..and I was team tagged to sell a Early series car that I was made to believe and convinced that it was of little value...so far as to put sun glasses on and show me the "polirization" of paint shade difference on the car...telling me it MUST have had accident and paint work...less thena few months later..car was re-sold for triple....I learned my lesson..and life went on..but I am an elephant and dont play with that kind of treatment again. BUT again this is JUST my own experiance. I do not understand why a motor would be sent to George...if your a full service shop? Or is it your shop is more a "cosmetic" restoration location..not a mechanical? I do think the issue you and Joe had with "team Tagging" Mr C.A. on the Blue DD was also IMO in-correct and un-professional...and the car ended up at George Evens loaction...where is should have gone to in the first place, IMO..sure would have saved him $20K he could have used to get the car right from the get go. I have seen the "cosmetic" side of your work first hand...the Lamborghini LM002 truck, it sure was "purrty"...but the mechanical side was lack luster or non exsistent.
THOSE compliance officers (along with the ones who forced Jaguar to remove the perspex headlight covers of the 1967 E-Types) should be hunted, water-boarded, torn and quartered, eviscerated, skinned alive, punched, beaten, had bamboo slivers shoved under their fingernails, strung up and impaled, and finally beheaded. On the other hand, I might have gone a bit far on that.
Well guys I have to say I came over to and joined FCHAT and the Lambo section because a fellow CT owner in the UK advised it was full of great friendly people with masses of knowledge and I have been lucky to have found some great minds who have helped me Joe ,Chad and many others. and I have trawled many old threads for technical info which has helped enormously but wow do you guys rip each other apart in public maybe its the norm over that side of the pond but would it not be better to do it behind closed doors or possibly have a duel somewhere remote. but blimey guys its no fun for the rest of us trying to mutually enjoy our love of Lambo's and having threads locked by the mods every day come on find some peace
Roy, I have said this before to you on the phone and I will type it here publicly: The car from 2007 in Monterey was painted in the front, I never said it "must have been in an accident" and at the time it was for sale on ebay for a month with Scott and then on your site by you. At the time paying what I did for that car was a lot for a S1 Countach and I had no intention of selling the car. When offers came in I said thanks but the car is not for sale. Eight months later when the unsolicited offer came in that I could not refuse, I sold the car. That number was less than 2x what I paid, not triple as you stated. I'm sorry you think that Joe and I were out to fool you but we were not. I sent the 2 engines to Evans because of his experience and his machine shop that knows how to handle problems like these. I did this for the customer benefit and purposely not to get in over my head. We are a full service shop and you are right about one thing for sure, doing "only" what the customer wants to pay for can sure come back to screw you (me) in this case. That will never happen again without the customer signing off at the bottom of the invoice that they are aware of our recommendations and have refused necessary work. Tony
Peter, I'm not looking to be a hero, the captain takes responsibility and does not blame the crew. I have let people go for not working up to my expectations. My role as an owner of 5 Countach cars before I started to take on the work of others is to make sure the cars are being restored correctly. The only reason I work on these cars is to take care of a car that I am very fond of and will continue to do my best to make sure they are cared for correctly. Tony
I have to agree and dis-agree with you here...I do agree a lot of the "Personel" attacks need to be off line... But I DONT think public info in regards to public people that deal in these machines should be off-line...are you saying all you want to hear is the good...and no negative..if so that sure does not do well for 100% information regardless what side of the fence it falls on...I dont think ONLY goos stuff needs to be presented and negative stuff kept "hush hush"..just my 2 cents
Roy I hear what you say and understand the point want to make However I still think the forum is not the place for fight club it just spoils it - we'll it does for me anyway maybe I'm just an over sensitive Limey hehehe ! If anyone has an issue with any business or individual it's for them to address it privately as they see fit with the benefit of the facts and not supposition or hearsay. I think the jousting just stops enthusiasts and experts alike posting for fear of being ridiculed or shot down in flames which restricts the appeal of the forum IMHO Anyway spark plugs to change tomorrow can't wait !
I side with Roy on this one. The role of a public forum to me is that it discloses public information and dispels rumors as best as it can when everyone plays honestly. Now we must separate the "fights" from the legit concerns. I dont care much for people ripping into each other for littel or no reason. It is anoying and unproductive. Waiste fo time for all. But when a concern like the one brought up here leads to a civilized discussion, it helps everyone. A rumor/misunderstanding left unchecked would not benefit Tony. If Tony has a lose employee, then Tony, while responsible, can openly say he let that person go. This happens all the time in business. At least here, he has the chance to provide an informative response that everyone can read and judge and do they own DD if they are still concerned about his work. If one does not want public visibility, he should not come on this board to promote himself, period. Case in point, a thread was made about a similar issue with W.deGroot about a botch job. turns out that is what the customer wanted. At least DeGroot admitted to doing this and why and in retrospect he should not have because he knew it was wrong. He probably should have had a disclaimer signed about the quick fix. I dont think the story reflects poorly on DeGroot's ability. Rather I think it has strenghten his judgment on that sort of situations. We now have histories of shops and how they handle matters. If done correctly in the right spirit with facts it can only benefit everyone. Look at how many dealers who took buyers to the cleaner and got called out here? This site is littered with cons selling Ferraris and exotics and going "bankrupt" or disapearing. You want to make sure these guys dont restart that crap again in another state or even country.
Tony, you are a good guy, I have had enough dealings with you to know this. Hope you & the family are doing well. Give my regards to the Mrs. Best,
Sounds like a Colleage entry recommendation letter. SO, what about the quality of the shops work. I am sure your Stamp of approval of his work will carry some weight?? Or "birds of a feather....."
Tony, Was this the red S1 that sold for $88K at Russo and Steel? If so I missed that car by an hour and would of paid up to $100K that day. I don't understand how can Roy think that the car could of been under sold at a public auction with multiple bidders? I remember Roy saying that no more no-reserve auctions for him after that sale. Geno
+1. Also, the only time it turns into a "fight" is when name calling and /or cursing is involved. Other wise it is a heat discussion or spitited discussion. IMO.
"We take a 60% deposit on all restoration work." Wow, that is a terrible business practice. None of the well known shops have ever asked anything of me up front.
This is a tough one because Im an old school Italian where your word and a hand shake means something. If someone asked me for 60% up front Id probably pass unless they were notably the BEST in the business and I was paying for a place in line. That said Im also a business man and know very well that there are stiffs out there. In the case of exotics, if someone doesnt pay the bill then you have their car parts anyone
I agree. I guess there is no correct way to do it but dropping off your car, a hand shake. A few weeks later you get a bill for 5k-10k. Pay it and they continue work. A few weeks/months later, another 7k bill. Therefore you are not held hostage or feel helpless, especially if you are not in agreement during the work. To have my car and 60k-90k....and you have not done anything yet. Red flag IMO. The business should have the funds to carry their business and employees. What happen if you sell the car or decide you do not want to continue? Will you get the appropirate money back? To my customers who want to pay when we start, I say to them: Can't take your money because I have not done anything yet. We have a value thread and the like. Maybe we should start a shop discussion thread?
Unfortunately it is not that easy. If someone does not pay the bill, you will still have to file a mechanics lien on the vehicle, wait, go to court, wait for them to decide and then keep the vehicle safe and secure until the customer comes up with the funds. Who knows how long this process might take. If you estimate the time and expense involved in a major restoration of an exotic I am sure many would say it will at least take a few months if not longer depending on the depth of the restoration. If for example your car is in the shop for a period of six months, the shop owner is going to be faced with the expenses of parts, labor and overhead, during this whole process. I for one being an industrial contractor know how those expenses add up. In my industry it is very common to ask for progressive payments, as some of our projects will last well over a year. The customer in turn will keep 10% retainage and when the project is finished will ask for final payment and lien waivers. If a shop is going to be faced with tying up a significant amount of money for a period of six months or better, they are going to charge you a good bit of interest to compensate for their risk and the time value for the money. All of this being said, it boils down to the customers own due diligence in evaluating the shop's reputation for quality, integrity, timeliness and value. Nobody is holding a gun to your head saying you must deal with shop abc and vice-a-versa shop abc does not have to work for you. All being said, if I know up front I am going to pay 50 to 60% percent of the expenses up front and I trust the shop owner, I do not have a problem with it, as I know he has expenses that he must cover and if he fails to cover those expenses he will go out of business. In my opinion good business is a balanced relationship between the company and the client. Sincerely Vic
I think every shop and business owner does it differently. As an example..if it is a NEW customer that I have never had history with I normaly would ask for 20% down and then bill in progresive amounts monthly as the equal amount of work is completed to reflect the progressive billed amount. There are up front costs involved to get a project started and most of the times the "parts" secured are only for that project. I also balance the "total" cost of the project as well as what it is...normaly jobs under 50K we take nothing and are easily comfortable to burden the costs till final payment. I do agree that 60% is stiff in my book, regardless what it is...cars, Fire Alarms, construction etc etc...and as stated here earlier, most ALL jobs have a final 10% held till fully completed, customer accepts it and pays of completion. I would not tell anyone how to run their business, it is their business.
