Modern Era V8 Collectiability? Will it be the 355? The 430? over the 348 360 458?

355 spider stick
cs
430 spider stick

i have put my money where my mouth is. 355 spider stick and cs in the garage

 

What would be considered the last hand-built car(s) or first non-hand-built? I'm assuming sometime in the 70s or 80s? Seems like a potentially hard line to draw as I would imagine automation came in slowly rather than all at once - hand-built bodies painted by robots to start for example.


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Zaporozhets were handbuilt cars made by soviets infused with Vodka. I don't see them making anybody rich as collectables. People have to "want" the vehicle.. based on technical rarity or design/aesthetics.

I think the cars that will be collectible were the ones made when Enzo himself was owner of the company... Oh... wait.. sorry.

 

Porsche came out with several special editions on it's 924. Those special editions are interesting but people aren't flocking to them today. A few are over 30 years old now. A buddy of mine occasionally comes across a special 924 and says "they only made X of this edition, so cool" I suggest he buys it for the $1200 and he says, nah, just cool to see it.

A bit apples and oranges, but I like the 924 and the later S is what I'd want with the 944 engine but I don't have a need for it. And they will be available for many years to come for reasonable prices. If someone wants a 360 or 430, there will be a lot available for many years to come. And other than nuance, not sure what makes them stand out among all the years of Ferrari production past, present and future

I think each car has the potential to go up in value eventually. The Dino prices are pushing some people to purchase a 308. 308 prices push some to buy Mondials. If 3X8 prices get too high people will look to the newer models. Some day the 3X8 may be a high value car. If a 360 or 430 can be made to run reliably at that point people will start looking to those as an alternative. That is how I see things starting for them.

 

I seriously doubt that any of them (V8's made since the 308) will ever be truly "collectible" in terms of financial value. The only one can I see even holding any sort of long term significant value is the carbed 308 ---- simply because it was the last old-school, carbed, F-car, and the 308 was groundbreaking in its day.

The 360 was significant as being the first all-aluminum body / chassis F-car ---- but, then all the others since followed suit, so that becomes more "normal" rather than unique, IMO.

In the future, I would not be shocked to see another V8 super car Ferrari, though --- which would of course be instantly collectible.

My point ---
If RARE..... then.... not necessarily collectible
but,
If COLLECTIBLE..... then.... necessarily rare

 

I love how people say "well, no mass produced Ferrari will ever be collectible".

Please explain to me American Muscle cars that were essentially mass produced plain jane econo boxes with big motors and some fancy stripes commanding ridiculous values. Aside from the 400 HP-- 6 mile per gallon -- "beast' under the food, they were a joke in almost every category of handling, braking, etc AT THE TIME of manufacturing.

They are highly desired because that's what kids wanted at the time or remember from their childhood.

The fact is: "it's the CAR stupid". If you like the car, you like the car. If a lot of people like the car, the price will rise.

No one is going to go into a bidding war for the last 2 nice Yugo's or GM Metro's still running around or in a barn somewhere. They may be rare but no one wants them either.

For a car to be collectible, it doesn't have to be necessarily rare. It has to be desired by a market larger than what's available on the market.

 

But, they are also somewhat rare these days, because most have not survived --- despite their original high production numbers.

I think that to most people, "collectible" also implies "increased / high" value. And, for that increased value, rarity is essentially a necessity.

Show me one "thing --- anything" that is considered collectible today ---- that is NOT also rare ???

 

IMO manuals will be more prized in the future. The F1 transmission might be seen a crude first attempt at paddle shifters, the 458 obviously improves on this massively.

So looking only at traditional gated manual cars, you have all the 308/328/348. Most of the 355. Few of the 360, even fewer 430. Stradale and Scud all F1 so they are out.

You can find reasons to handicap all of the cars
308 GT4: four-seater, Bertone styling, old
308/328: old these days and relatively slow
Mondial: four seater, softer and slower
348: engine out, dubious build quality and reliability
355: engine out, known trouble spots in reliability
360: aluminum construction means one good whack and it is never right. Cam variators
430: aluminum

The 430 will be the car to have in 10 years if you want a classic manual Ferrari. As they depreciate, the spread between the V8's will compress. Some people will like 360's, some 355, some the older cars. But none of the ones above will be super-collectible from a value standpoint.

Will we ever see a 328 routinely selling for more than a 430? I seriously doubt it if miles and conditions are equal. If a 430 is $70k in a few years, the 328 (or 308 or 348) will simply have to be less $$$.

 

Yep. 16m is the winner. A celebratory edition with very limited production. The CS for the same reason of limited production. I would have a hard time between a 16m and 458 if I were buying today. Only problem is the rag top is almost useless in the climate I would use it it. Oklahoma various seasons renders a 16m useless 75% of the year

 

Just like the RV forums people often pick what they own. It is always interesting to see how some prefer some cars and not others. Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder I suppose. I own a 355 Spider and think it is one of the best looking Ferrari's made but I wouldn't say that it is going to be a collectible some day. I think that the Dino's and 308's are already proving to be collectible as they seem to be appreciating. I personally think that the 360 is one of the ugliest Ferrari's made and they do nothing for me IMHO.

 

As I said, rarity is not how many pieces were made but the total size of the market vs the number of people who want one.

Just being rare does not make something collectible. And, on the converse, just being mass produced does not make it undesirable to be collectible.

I'm not saying a 308 will be worth $6 Million one day. I'm saying that if enough people want them, the prices will go up no matter how many are out there. And, every time one gets into an accident or is so old or rusty it can't be repaired, that reduces the market by one. More people who want it with less cars our there means rising values. The law of supply and demand is never wrong.

If you made a car that was 2 million units and 1 billion people were looking to buy one, what do you think the collectible status would be?

On the flip side, there are 2 good Yugo's left in the world. All the others have been crushed. The problem is it has a market of 2 people. No one wants one no matter how "rare".

I wish I had a dollar for every "expert" who told me in the 80's that my 246 Dino would NEVER be collectible or of any value because it didn't have 12 cylinders, they made too many of them, it had a mass produced cast iron engine by Fiat, and it wasn't a real "Ferrari".

Wrong.

 

A car is not an investment. Period.

Buy what you want. Not what you think someone else will want in 10 years.

When the time comes to sell it (if you sell it), you deal with it then and try to get as much as you can.

Focus your energy on making more money to support your hobby... much more effective than trying to justify it as an investment.

 

I guess I'm biased toward the 355's looks, but realistically none of these cars are all that timeless. The 360/F430 looks very '90s, and I'm not sure the 458's Transformers styling is going to age all that well.

Agree with most of this. IIRC there were over 1,300 360s made in CS form, and nearly all of them seem to be babied as though they were collectibles. And there are another 16,000 or so 360s that look basically identical. Kind of the opposite of the 246s, which languished and rusted for years before anyone woke up to them as being the end of an era.

I concur. The concept of 'rebuilding' is fading into history. I can't imagine anyone tinkering with the instrument cluster in a 599.

I don't see any of the cars mentioned in this thread being collectible now or possibly ever. Unfortunately they will be, for the most, part very complicated obsolete technology, made and preserved en masse by those hoping they're onto the next Lusso or 246. Glue, aluminum and electronics don't age well, though.

If money is a concern, I would guess the Enzo, F50, F40 and 288 GTO are the only four Fiat-era Ferraris to hang on to. The fibreglass 308s would likely do well, and the earlier two seaters are already expensive. Anything else should probably just be driven and enjoyed -- 360s are getting into Boxster territory, so you get a V8 for flat-6 money -- not a bad deal for a toy.

 

I think the Stradale has made quite an impression since 2004 - as proven by those quotes taken above. That may play into future collect-ability no?

A worthy recipient for certain.

 

And what about the F40's electronic dash? No one will tinker with that? I suppose when they go bad (and all of them do) people just sell their car to Goodwill.

I'm always amazed at how short sighted people are about the future.

We might as well say classics will go away because there's no one left to rebuild and tune weber carbs.

"Where there's a will, there's a way". "When there's a buck to be made, someone will make it".

 

I'm sure they said the exact same thing in the 60's when looking at a row of 6 carbs sitting on a Ferrari v12 right before they put a small block chevy in it.

In 20 years the electronics in today's cars will be child's play. The 'complicated' 355 2.7 motronic can be replaced with an off-the shelf ecu for half the cost of replacing the (rebuildable btw) stock pair of ecu's and with more control. I don't see things like that changing.

 

+1, That's why there are still 308/328s on the road today!

 

Very true! How many use and original Dinoplex when they go bad? How many classics run with a hidden MSD box instead of the old electronics?

Necessity is the mother of invention. If people want to keep these on the road, they will. Think its too expensive? Try rebuilding a diff in a Boxer or an engine in any classic.

People will spend and restore as long as there is a desire to do so. 99% of all car restorations lose money. It's cheaper to buy a good one than restore one. Yet we do it anyway because we enjoy it.

 

Wow Pete, we agree!!! and 100% at that

The 348 GTC is the only one I really watch closely since I own one, but values have increased in recent years. Where once they were commanding a 50% premium over the standard car (only 3 yrs ago), that is probably now closer to 90%

The 924 is a good example, check out the prices of a GT Carrera or GTR over the standard car. But they weren't just cosmetic "specials" and that is the difference. There needs to be some substance and there is to the GTC, CS and Scud/16M IMO

 

The only cars you can really look at as investments are specialty cars. If you got an Enzo new and still have it, congratulations, your car is worth about $1M more than you paid for it.

V8 "mass-production" cars don't work that way. Right now, we view the 458 as the ultimate V8 (at least I do). But I viewed the 430 the same way a few years ago. I'm sure Ferrari will out-do themselves again when they eventually replace the 458. 2010 458s have already started to slip in value (some are in the $225K range).

 

the 360cs and the 16m. thats your answer.

btw, i am biased of course, but nobody who has ever driven or ridden in a 360cs will dispute that car being on the list.

 

I do not think any of them will be collectible. They will just be used cars. The number of younger people willing to spend time and money on these is a shrinking pool. Too many of these cars built and they take a certain kind of person with time and money. Plenty of younger people with one or the other but not both.

 

Ha ha! I was told the same thing about my Dino in 1985!

History repeats itself.

 

Respectfully disagree. Sooner or later 20 something will want to leave the basement and his XBOX.. he might want to walk down the street and have everything a 10 minute walk from the house.. but life doesn't work that way. You need to either take publci transportation or a car. Public transport isn't going to transform miraculously from the people that HAVE to take it versus WANT to take it. They will need cars, esp once the kids come. And they will.

People want beautiful things. They want nice things. And I think because people can't afford a nice car now.. that doesn't mean they won't have it in the future. There are car guys in every generation. Even the ones playing grantourismo in the basement.

It'll happen with time.

 

TBH I don't see why a Dino is a $250k car, but collectors feel differently obviously. Besides beautiful (always helps with long-term collectability) it seems like several old tinny Italian cars. Why is a Dino worth more than a Countach or five time a nice 308? I dunno.

From a beauty perspective the 355 is probably the best-looking of all the V8 Ferraris (including 458) and also sounds like heaven and hell at the same time. So maybe it will have the most demand from our grandchildren, but with so many made the values will never be extremely high.