Hi All New to the forum, I've been informed that this is where the expertise is to be found! Anyway, I am on my second 458 which I just took delivery of. Very pleased with it when I saw it, its a gorgeous blu pozzi with cuiou interior. However, I wasn't so pleased having been behind the wheel. It's been wet here in the UK and the new car is so nervous in the damp wet conditions. Much more so than my 2010 car which I could drive around in with ECT off quite happily. The latest car just feels very stiff by comparison and I've had several pant filling moments, including one with just 200 miles on the clock. At first I thought there was an issue such as a knackered damper. But apparently not, Ferrari have it seems tampered with the suspension and revised the settings. I am sure this works well in the dry and the car is even more responsive (not that is needed improving here) but in anything other than perfect 'qualifying' conditions I am finding it pretty snappy and intimidating. I personally like to drive it with the ECT off when I am really on it. I just like to be in control, or not as it now appears! My main question is has anyone else experienced this and is it possible (its always possible but you know what I mean hopefully) to reprogramme the ECU and suspension settings back to the last setting? I very much doubt anything has physically changed on the car, its bound to be an ECU upgrade so the dampers get stiffer the more you wind off the mannetino. It's either that or I will replace the dampers altogether and springs. It basically feels too stiff at the moment and the rear is very lively, from turn in onwards. You have to be super cautious with the throttle and there is very little traction. Less so than on the last car, this would be consistent with the a stiffer setting? To confirm, I had the tracking checked by a very reputable race team over here. They confirmed that the toes and camber are as per factory. The only thing they did do was correct the corner weights and lower the car by 5mm. I don't think that alone would explain the handling issues. To my mind lowering the rear would aid traction and turn in. I would really appreciate some input on what my options are. Thanks.
I have a 2012, but have driven 2010/11's a bit, including on track. The 2012 does have software upgrades, both for the suspension and DCT; effectively stiffens up the chassis and makes for more aggressive shift points, most noticeably in Race mode and beyond. If you are driving with all the stability controls turned off, you are effectively setting the car to "max stiff" and also disabling the traction control, and setting stability control to its most liberal setting. The suspension settings alone could make the car feel "twitchy" (otherwise known as responsive). You also have the throttle response and shift point set to the most aggressive position, which is likely exacerbating what you are feeling. The wet pavement and stiffer chassis are also likely making the car feel a bit slippery (generally, wet conditions suggest softer chassis to get max grip). I do not know if you can "retro" the upgrades; I'd imagine not from a warranty perspective but you can ask the dealer! Might suggest trying the Bumpy Road setting to soften the chassis, or seeing if you are comfortable using Sport mode to soften up the handling to your preferences. Might also add that in lower grip situations, it might also be some driving technique (turn in, throttle application, brake release) that highlight what you are feeling and unsettling the chassis. In my car, when it's wet, I'm either in Sport or Wet mode, and I use Bumpy Road setting quite a bit even in Race mode when on rough pavement.
I'm sure you probably have the same tires as your previous car (guessing p zeros). I don't know about suspension changes etc, but one thing that may help with the grip are the Michelin super sport tires in the wet rather than the p zeros...
How many miles on the new car? It takes several hundred for the tires to develop maximum grip. I once drove on new super tires in the rain and they were quite slippery. Once a few hundred miles were on them, the problem went away. Hopefully that is all that is going on here with wet grip. if you're already way past that, the traction control calibration is the issue and may be set that way for your model year. If that is the case, it won't easily be changed. As for chassis stiffness, that won't easily be changed, either. I'm glad you drive your car in the rain. Hopefully Ferrari figured at least some of its customers do that and have a solution for you other than to suggest you trade your car for an FF.
I just took delivery of my 1st Ferrari 458. I felt the same way in that the car is very nervous on wet roads. In the dry I feel like I am the king of the road. In the wet, nervous, tense, stiff. I just put on bumpy road suspension and go slow. Also car is very sensitive to road surface imperfection.
will try to pile on a bit, perhaps philosophically..curious to hear the debate. most modern sports cars are optimized for the dry, and have added incredible technology (ABS, stability, traction control, etc) to optimize performance and/or compensate for limited human skills (and judgment, at times). My sense is the 458 is optimized for the dry (including the tires) and has enough adjustments to help normal drivability (less than 8/10ths) and wet conditions...chassis stiffness, throttle response, aggressiveness of interventions of CT and ESC. If pushed hard, any "sports car" will feel a bit tenuous in low-grip situations compared to the dry. Take a look at a great driver, same car, dry vs. wet....in the wet, they adopt a very different driving style. The best ones can mimic what all the electronics are trying to do (i.e. throttle inputs, brake modulation, steering inputs). Even then, they are slower and slippery in the wet. To the OP, am curious if you didn't like WET, or even SPORT mode for some reason in the rain, and what in particular? I agree that the 2012+ 458's are a bit more aggressive, having said that, i do dial it back to WET and the dynamic changes are very noticeable. I sometimes do click everything off and have fun in the rain, but usually when there are no passengers in the car and an absence of trees, guardrails and traffic around me. This thread is causing me to think and I'm learning, good stuff.
I think choosing the proper tire and an alignment should help you out. Even brand new cars in many instances need a proper alignment. And through alignment you can tune the car to perform better in the rain to a certain degree of course.
I've had the car aligned. First thing I did when I bought it, straight to a race team that prep cars for Brit GT. They are Ferrari specialists. They just checked the settings were as per factory as I said I didn't want a race car for the road. The only change they did make is to lower the car a little, about 5mm all round. I did think it was riding a little high when I saw it in the showroom. It looked like a Land Rover Defender. Albeit a bit prettier! The reason I mentioned this is just that the car feels so different to my 2010/11 458. It is markedly different. I don't always drive with the aids off but sometimes I like to when I am in the mood. Be that in the wet or dry. I love driving in the wet, both on road and on track. I have raced for several years too. The reason I like to drive in the wet with the electronics dialled out is so that you can actually get the car moving about a bit without having to reach insane speeds. The grip levels in the dry are too high to achieve that on the road without take quite a lot of risk - most notably with the law. What I don't like about the new setting is that it appears, the more you dial up the mannetino (is ECT off) the stiffer the car gets. The opposite to what I would want in the wet. In the wet I would soften off the dampers, reduce roll bar stiffness, stand the tyres up etc etc. The new 458 goes the other way. Hence you turn in and there is no compliance, the tire can't bite and it just wants to slide. Same with traction, I can't seem to get much. Basically what I need is my old 458 for the wet and my new one for the dry. Expensive option! Ferrari have confirmed that this is the case with the new cars. You're right in that is has been optimised for the dry. I want to drive the car myself though and 'feel' what it is doing, the delicacy and balance is up to me and not an ECU. Each to their own, this is espeically so on the road as it actually gives you something to do. I'd like to try a wet mode in my race car so that I can just slam on the throttle and brakes and let it sort it for me. But not my road car which I want to drive. Unfortuantely, you can get your 2010 car upgraded to the new settings but you cannot reverse it on a car that was built with it in the first place. I am going to try a Scud now instead. Or I might buy an early 458. Yes I know the Scud will be stiff too as it is track optimised but it is also simpler. That might be a good thing. I have had a CS and oved that.
Jamie from your description, sounds like you know what you are dealing with and what you like. Also sounds like you are totally ok with the dry setup, it's the wet that you struggling with. It might be worth trying RACE with Bumpy Road on to see if that compromise works at all. I wonder if a change in tires, or tire pressures, may provide a bit of improvement as well, though I'd imagine you may or may not mind changing base pressures depending on the weather. Question - I have not tried a 458 road car with lowered ride height, assume your shop did that without jacking up the spring pre-loads? If your effective spring rate went up even 10-15% I am sure you would feel that. I have never driven a Scud "hard" in the rain, but I have driven my F430C hard in the rain, on wet race tires, to the extent you want to compare a challenge car vs. a scud. Can guarantee that it squirms and is twitchy even with good tires on it; only one control (ASR on/off), which I run off unless it's pounding rain. (We tend to avoid swapping for the soft springs/shocks/bars). Please keep us posted
