Thinking serious of a rebuild for more power. | FerrariChat

Thinking serious of a rebuild for more power.

Discussion in '348/355' started by zakeen, Dec 4, 2012.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2004
    989
    Czech Republic
    #1 zakeen, Dec 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just got quotes on the following:

    -Engine disassemble and measurements all parts which influence the performance parameters of the engine
    -Construction of a new project (I mean computational work to determine the treatment of parts, event. manufacture new parts needed to achieve the desired performance)
    -Calculation and production 2pcs of parts for modification of heads (intake + exhaust)
    -Adjustment of the cylinder head
    -Production of new parts - here I assume that we will probably produce 4 pcs camshafts
    -Assembly work
    -Optimization of software performance

    Then with the parts:

    -Exhaust manifold – custom made
    -Intake + injection -
    -Pistons
    -Rods

    The Pistons and Rods are unknown. The company doing this has never done a 308 to 360 motor, they are doing research, I thought I ask some other experts :D What pistons or Rods do you know that would be good for 100 +/- HP?

    First dyno attached.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. Fabspeed Motorsport

    Sponsor

    Feb 5, 2009
    3,171
    Fort Washington, PA
    Full Name:
    Fabspeed Motorsport
    If you really want the best, which is what your 348 deserves, you will go with Mahle Motorsport pistons, which are over $200 each. You can go crazy with options (DLC coated piston pins for $50+ each). Connecting rods should be either Arrow, or Carrillo. Arrow can do a set in Titanium for you as well for over $1000 each (this will bring some 360 technology to your engine). Or find a good used set of 360 Titanium rods and make sure they are reconditioned.

    You can use high quality forged pistons from just about anybody because the bores are steel, but they don't have the same skirt treatment that Mahle offers, nor are they the same metallurgy. Also be careful who you use, there are a million different "engine experts" who take shortcuts because most owners don't know what they are looking at. You can pm me for more advice.

    To give you a heads up, if the quote is less than $20,000 then you may end up with shortcuts , inferior work, or lesser quality parts. That $20,000 minimum doesn't have any "Ferrari tax" added either.
     
  3. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2004
    989
    Czech Republic
    Thanks for the advice, they actually told me they recommend:

    CARRILLO RODS & BOLTS - H-Beam- Ferrari V8 308 328 348 -(5345) FE-328>-65394H
    CPP V8 - 5345 - FE-328>-65394H

    Glad you also said it.

    I understand this is going to cost a bit. But I would love a 348 with more more power :D
     
  4. evgeny_yu

    evgeny_yu Karting

    Feb 26, 2011
    144
    Moscow, Russia
    Full Name:
    Evgeny
    Would be interesting to see your experience.
     
  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    Agree, Mahle pistons.

    Be a little careful on the con rods. Changing to lighter weight con rods (like titanium) should be accompanied with a rebalance of the crankshaft (throw weights).

    You can probably find 25 HP in a modern valve job {3-angel, 5-angle, eliptical, parabolic} especially if the valve seats are cut with a single point tool (like on a Serdi machine).

    Another 10 is availiable with compression with careful attention to cc-ing of the combustion chamber and tuning of the engine after you get it installed.

    But to find 100 HP, you are going to have to set your goal on 8500-9000 RPM for peak HP. You will loose a lot of TQ down low to move the HP peak up to this RPM point. This will basically require titanium con rods--or to put it another way, Ti roda at 8500 RPMs will have a 10-15 HP advantage on steel rods at 8500 RPMs just because of the reduced reciprocating loads.

    It is likely you will also have to port the intake and exhaust (and cc them for matching purposes.)

    The RPM band you choose will determine the length of the header tubes--and as on increases the diameter of the header tubes, the required length increases to remain tuned at the same point. For a 400 HP motorat 8500 RPMs a 348/355/360 engine will want 42mm ID tubes (about 1+7/8" diameter) and about 29" long. 321 is ideal, 305 is acceptable if coated on the inside) You are going to want a 20mm long transition between the 37mm equivalent exhaust port diameter and the 42mm tubing (7 degrees included angle of the transition). Packaging this in the engine bay and not cooking anythinig will be an interesting challenge.
     
  6. cuneo

    cuneo Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 20, 2006
    2,484
    Sorry guys, this seems like a really fun project, but why not buy a 355 and mod it slightly? Might be quite a bit cheaper and offer more performance. Unless this is a "just because I want to" kind of project.
     
  7. angelis

    angelis F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 18, 2004
    6,400
    London, England
    Full Name:
    Sy
    Easier and cheaper option is just get more air into the engine, change the camshafts and Motec.
     
  8. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2004
    989
    Czech Republic
    Mitch, thanks for that. I will pass it on to the guy planning this. More information the better.

    Because the 348 is a better looking car. But to be serious I want performance in a 348. I like the sharp looks of the 348.
     
  9. Fabspeed Motorsport

    Sponsor

    Feb 5, 2009
    3,171
    Fort Washington, PA
    Full Name:
    Fabspeed Motorsport
    I would find a shop that has either a Rottler or Sunnen CNC hone with automatic taper control and also a cylinder head shop that uses a Newen fixed turning valve & seat machine. If 1 shop has both of these pieces of equipment you can be sure they are dedicated to providing the best to their customers. I know a few if you'd like referrals.
     
  10. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,918
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    On that note, why not put a 355 engine/trans in a 348? You get the 60-90hp jump at a significant savings to doing all that work to a 348 along with a sixth gear...Especially if you sell the 348 engine and trans.

    It'd probably be cheapest to sell the 348, buy a 355 and trade your front and rear bumpers and lower door panels to someone with a 348 that wants it to look like a 355...
     
  11. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,919
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    The latest newen machines are having some concentricity issues compared to Serdi like machines with fixed blade cutters. I do love that the newen machines basically allow you to design your own cut though. Very neat.
     
  12. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,329
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    One word:

    Turbo.
     
  13. cactussed

    cactussed Formula Junior

    Mar 12, 2008
    298
    Buy some low comp forged pistons, some bigger injectors and bolt 2 small turbos on it. Get some mapping done and away you go. Or a small supercharger.

    Honestly.
     

Share This Page