I wonder if Boeing still has their T-38 chase/photo plane?
That is just nutty. Then again, it is the US Gvt. Buy a newer surplus MiG-29 with better thrust/weight ratio over the Hornet - Yes! Buy a Sukhoi 27 that rivals an F-15 Eagle - Yes! Buy a T-38 Talon - DENIED!
Here's the old article that talks about the Ross Perot Jr. T-38 and how the gov got it back from him. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/05/31/370705/index.htm
for sure (Perot T link) but also say thank you WADE for the T-38 NASA pics. Man, I was going to go dinosaur and search through the floppies for that picture. Thanks as well, Hannibal. Awesome! Wow, Rob, that linkee to 2004... a glimpse into history. Did one go to the boneyard? Rob's 10 pm response read.
OK, more information on the Ross Perot Jr. T-38. Seems like he still has it and it is a combined T-38/F-5. "fastest T-38 ever" http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34190
That would be "planes"... Boeing owns 2 of them. (Boeing also owns an old T-33. I think I remember it flew 'chase' for the 787 maiden flight.) Thornton Aircraft (see post above) owns 3 (plus 3 F-5s, BTW). A holding company (Perot's?) and a private citizen each own 1. So, according to the FAA, so there are 7 privately owned. Government has not tried to limit private ownership. Shoot, they're all over the world as trainers... probably easier to buy than a MiG.
This is just a short list. There are several T-38s and F-5s for private sale in the U.S. as well as others owned and flown privately but not for sale. The FAA has fairly stringent pilot certification requirements for any high performance jet, including MiG 15s, 17s, 21s, L-29s, L-39s, and T-33s. There is at least one F-4 in private hands and there are at least six F-104s in private hands as well. Most are flown by ex military pilots but are still N -registered and flown under FAA rules and licensing provisions by civilians. There is no government #ock-block to jet warbird ownership...just few available specimen and few peeps with the cashish to fly/maintain them properly. Think of the L-39 as the Ferrari 308 of the jet warbird line-up...the Talon, on the other hand, is an entirely different level of complexity and therefore cost...$1.3 to 2+ mil for examples I know of and that's just the entry ticket. Operating costs will be ridiculous...of course, I'm just a government employee, so I'm sure there are some that would laugh at what I think is ridiculous. The Talon burns just under 4000 pounds of fuel in about an hour and 10 minutes of fun flying...that's about $2700-3000 in fuel alone. I have no idea what maintenance costs on biz jets, but whatever it is, the Talon will be more, simply because parts are not everywhere and are not available through established pipelines. I know I mix facts with my $0.02...I'm frequently wrong, but never uncertain... Blue Skies! Hannibal
Nice airplane; and easy to fly. Sure the speeds were faster, but it flew nicely. As long as the pilot kept in mind being behind the drag curve when slow, it was a piece of cake. I have many fond memories of the airplane when I was a student pilot, in primary training.
I thought this was an interesting picture on the web of the relative size of the T-38 Talon compared to an F-15 Eagle. The T-38 is a sleek looking jet, for sure. . Image Unavailable, Please Login
The Talon is small, but he Eagle is HUGE! We used to call it the Rodan...we could see them 5-10 miles away routinely when doing air-to-air... Image Unavailable, Please Login
I don't know why the T-38 would cost that much more to operate than a Lear 24, if you go easy on the afterburner. The engines are more or less the same, and while I'm sure that parts are more expensive for the T-38, I still wouldn't think it would be an order of magnitude more, but I admit to having no direct experience with the T-38. In my opinion, that is what would make the T-38 desirable, in comparison with many of the other jet fighters in civilian hands.
You may very well be right...I just think maintenance will be more than for most biz jets because of parts availability and because you won't be able, or want, to just let anyone work on it. Talons have no internal starters so you'll need an APU/Paloust unit to start anywhere you go. Things go wrong often on start...we used to just jump in a "spare" and off we went, while some dudes would spend sometimes days figuring out why some transformer-rectifier fail light kept coming on...or some other of a hundred different little squawks would keep you from taking off on time. All of these things were happening routinely on jets that were very well maintained and flew often. Still...would be a great plane to fly for fun. I just haven't seen Thornton sell theirs in over 5 years. There's got to be a reason for that. There's no shortage of millionaire douchoisie out there to buy planes like these so they could pose next to them. My gut says they are REALLY expensive to play with. I like that people want to own and fly these...I'd love to partner with 10 people and fly one again one day...my very very best to those who do it well! Blue Skies! Hannibal
I've had those pics on my work PC for awhile; not sure where I got them. NASA's T-38s are pretty photogenic... here's a link to Google Images. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=0&gs_ri=hp&cp=9&gs_id=y&xhr=t&q=nasa+t-38&safe=off&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355272958,d.eWU&bpcl=39942515&biw=1603&bih=797&wrapid=tljp1355436423005016&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=kFHKUOjCAYO88ASUzYHIAg
Usually plan high 30s but we'd pop up to 450 and there abouts to go over the boomers common to AZ, NM, and Texas in the late summers. I can't remember how high we were allowed to go...50K seems to stick in my head...whatever it was, I probably went there just to see what the fuss was about. Blue Skies! Hannibal
Depends on what you mean. If you mean speed...Talon eats Alpha. If you mean turn/fight (at any altitude both can fly, in or out of burner...Alpha has none but doesn't need it), Alpha eats Talon all day long! I used to fight Alphas all the time when I was on exchange with the RAF and it was the meanest turning airplane they had second only to Typhoon. A Harrier could also best an Alpha depending on the pilot of either. Blue Skies! Hannibal
Did it not have enough wing to comfortably fly in the mid-40s on a regular basis? The 20-series Learjets, in comparison, spend almost all their time at FL410 and above, if possible.
They have to... that's the only place they don't run out of fuel in 20 minutes; those turbojets are thirsty at low altitude.
Great pictures guys, thanks for posting! My father worked his entire career as an engineer for just 2 companies: Northrop and Lockheed. He retired in '92 or '93. I have many fond memories from my younger years receiving T38, F5, and later F18 models for Christmas. I think I even got an L1011 model one year when he was on that program. They used to let employees bring their children through the plant on tours and I still remember how cool it was to walk through Northrop's Hawthorne plant and the Lockheed plant in Burbank.
