Thinking about a 575

I only use Sport when I am in a hurry. I like my CV joints and other driveline components. Besides, I remain unconvinced Sport is easier on the clutch.

 

Taz, could you expand on this comment. For me sport is the only mode tolerable and I find shifts and the suspension far from firm or harsh enough to have driveline impact. The possible exception might be at heavy throttle.
Like you, I drive my car on the easy side. If there are stats on this maybe driving technique comes into play.
Thanks,
Bill
FL

 

I could easily be wrong here, but perhaps it's the difference with FHP -- in other words, Taz (who I believe has FHP) doesn't feel the need for 'sports' mode, while those of us without FHP often keep it in 'sports' for the stiffer/quicker settings?

 

Soon after purchase I added the complete FHP package (with Taz's help, susp ecu, strg ecu, FHP springs & bar) and enjoy the improvement very much. Car is 2002.
Bill
FL

 

I always drive my F1 in sports mode, 'cause I loooooove the sound when downshifting...

 

I also drive in Sport mode most of the time because I hate the slow shifts in normal mode (especially at lower revs).
However be aware that sport mode not only affects shift times, downshifting, stiffness of the ride and other things, but also affects ASR. In normal mode ASR prevents you from drifts caused by power over steer. Even in snow you can fully press the right pedal in a corner and nothing happens (I tried this in a winter training on snow). With sports mode on the ASR is relaxed and it does not fully prevent you from power over steer. Of course with ASR off there is no system preventing you from any driving error.

So I usually switch sport mode off when driving in wet or even in snow. In sport mode it could happen that you turn you car without wanting it.

Markus

 

Bill- In Sport mode the shifts are banged home more aggressively and that is rougher on drivetrain components. Also not sure whether it is a translation error or not, but the WSM says the system double clutches on downshifts in Sport, which is an extra cycle of the T/O bearing and all the other clutch parts, even if it would be gentler on synchro rings. It may only do the equivalent of heel and toe, but the manual says double clutch.

So when in a hurry, I use Sport, and for normal driving...

Shift speed does not bother me at all unless I am in a hurry. I drag raced in my younger days, so it was the same thing for three pedal driving. Fast shifts, even power shifts, when you needed them and relatively slow, smooth shifts when you do not. Replaced enough Corvette CV joints on the half axles to know what fast shifts can do to them. Even one or two on the drive shaft. Never replaced a clutch, though.

 

Terry – I assume „double clutch“ is a translation error. In German language we have the term „Zwischengas“ which means to press the throttle pedal between shifts (heel and toe). When I looked up this term the dictionary came up with “double clutch”.

Shift speed per se is also no issue to me. What drives me crazy is the long time it takes between pulling the lever and shifting the next gear in.

Markus

 

BTW – While the HGTC software changes gears noticeably faster at lower revs it shifts much smoother at higher revs with full throttle.

 

Jackpot

Love that symphony

 

Makes the same sound in Normal. You have rev-matching in both modes.

Hopefully this is not another old wive's tale that rev-matching only occurs in Sport.

 

Taz and Elsi, thank you both for your comments. If there were an extra cycle in sport that would bother me. It sounds like that is not the case. I'll just consider the rest as part of the package. Sport is the only mode that will work to my taste.
Elsi, on the next drive I'll take note as to delays between the paddle and actual shifting. Didn't notice particularly long delays there before.

Bill
FL

 

Bill- If you like it better, no reason not to use Sport. Trying to remember if you were lucky and actually got all the original FHP parts, some of which are NLA. Not too much difference with HGTC parts, though, and that anti-roll bar is still available.

 

Taz, 19.5 rear bar (HGTC). The rest is correct FHP before prices got too crazy. Car has modulars, factory straight pipes and HGTC silencers. Very happy with current setup. If I could change one thing it would be a little more music with bypass valves open. The primary side is good.
Bill
FL

 

Elsi, just back from a ride. The shifts seem pretty prompt on command. Sometimes the trans sort of loafs through the process depending on throttle position. Maybe slight delay with light throttle. Under 3/4 throttle they are right there. I realize you have plenty of seat time to know. Suspect if one stepped out of a newer version, delays might be more obvious.
Bill
FL

 

The down shift in sport on my FHP car sounds much better with the rev matching. Does not happen with the sport off.

 

Bill – Maybe I am a bit biased. Before my 575M I had a Maserati 4200 with Cambiocorsa (equivalent of F1). It was very awful (to me) the long time it took from pulling the paddle to actual shifting in normal mode (it was quite improved in sport mode). But maybe that’s just me. I drove the Maserati 60 000 kms and then sold it and never regret it.

The 575M is much better than the Maserati (it is also much more expensive…) but I think I am still biased a bit.

Some months back I test drove a F430 F1. Wow, those are fast gear changes. I just pulled off from the dealer and switched from first to second gear at rather low revs (maybe 2 500 or so) and the gear change was nearly instantaneous. But that’s a different car and a different story. I still love my 575M and would not trade it in for a F430 (though a Scud would be a very nice addition ).

Markus

 

575- FHP has nothing to do with shift speed, but if you like the sound better, great. The system matches revs in both modes. Most of the popping and burbling on downshifts is cut off with a stock exhaust during downshifts because the bypass valves slam shut when the throttle is lifted for the downshift, unless the revs are above about 5000, or you are downshifting to accelerate with the throttle still depressed.

The 575M F1 system will also skip gears on downshifts if you give it two really quick taps.

 

Taz

My valves are permanently open so it can't be that. I don't get the rev matching unless sport is on.
Could it be that the UK spec is different?

 

No, they are all the same and the system rev matches in Normal and Sport. If it did not, you would get a big lurch every time you downshifted in Normal as the clutch and driveline would have to absorb the difference in flywheel and drivetrain speeds. Can sure hear it in mine so surprised you cannot hear it in yours, especially with the bypass valves open.

 

Terry – I am asking me if we have different versions of the F1 ECU. Sure my HGTC is quite different but also in my old standard 575M I had the impression that downshifting in normal mode is a huge difference compared to sport mode. I have to check when I drive my Maranello the next time.

Markus

 

Markus- Your HGTC just has quicker shifting in all modes and is also a bit smoother on all shifts.

It is easy to demonstrate the rev matching in Normal. Just approach a 90 degree intersection on a suburban/country lane at around 40-45 mph/64-72 kph in 5th gear. Brake late and hard and downshift 5-4-3-2. You will clearly hear the rev matching and get no lurching between gears as the revs rise automatically. If you did that with no rev matching, you would be tossed forward on each downshift.

Downshifts in Sport are just faster. Other than that, no difference.

I think you are correct on the double clutching and it confirms my suspicion that the system does not double clutch, just rev matches. Incidentally, there is also a rev match on upshifts, too. The system cuts the throttle on upshifts to match revs.

 

Terry – Thanks. Will try next time I take my car out (it’s winter here and not great fun to drive at the moment).

Re the system cuts the throttle on upshifts to match revs: I assume this was the reason they had to go from a throttle cable in the 550 to a drive by wire system in the 575M.

Markus

 

Markus- It was mostly for the downshifts. The original F355 F1 system did not have sufficient throttle authority to match revs on downshifts, so you had to heel and toe or right foot, left foot to get the revs to match. It also is a big help for the ASR system, which is much smoother for the 575M system than for the 550. It probably helps on upshifts, too, but the change in throttle is not as much as for downshifts because the engine is under throttle when the shift is made.

Digital throttle was introduced on the 360 in 1998/99.

 

I'm confused between the Fiorano Handling Package (FHP) and the HGTC package. From window stickers and the Ferrari website, GTC was priced at roughly $22K (on a Superamerica) and included:

- a more sporting suspension with 35% more rigidity to the front springs and 15% in the rear and a rear anti-roll bar that itself is 73% stiffer;
- a sports exhaust
- red brake callipers with logo;
- CCM (Carbon Composite Material) brake discs (398 mm front and 360 mm rear).

FHP is a more-limited and less costly option and did not get into the carbon brakes.

Are these two options mutually exclusive? That is, if the car has FHP, it could not have GTC, and vice versa? Are the differences between stock, FHP, and GTC easily captured in a table or short paragraph?

Thanks!